Thread: Spirit for Int?

  1. #1

    Spirit for Int?

    With the apparent nerfage of spirit related mana regen via the OO5SR - the quintessential bread and butter of a holy priest - will anyone be gemming or enchanting for Intelligence or perhaps Crit in order to make use out of replenishment or clearcast procs?


  2. #2

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeklus
    With the apparent nerfage of spirit related mana regen via the OO5SR - the quintessential bread and butter of a holy priest - will anyone be gemming or enchanting for Intelligence or perhaps Crit in order to make use out of replenishment or clearcast procs?

    Ive always loved being holy, but if that's the case just because druids could benefit so much from the 5SR Im prolly going disc, I don't know though... love Holy

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral nobodysbaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,000

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    They will also nerf clearcast proccs so we can't use it to go outside 5sec rule.

    So... Int>Spirit? We will see how much they buff meditation.

    I am a bit worried though, since the class that has the biggest capacity to heal without going oom is clearly paladins, not priests or druids:S

  4. #4

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    You guys are taking the 'nerf' out of context...

    There is a case of most classes having basically infinite mana, and with respect to healers this does create significant problems.

    1. If you cannot go oom you devalue int & spirit, as such you start to complain about how gear is itemised.
    2. When developing new encounters that are to challenge players there is only 1 real option to challenge healers and that is to ramp up damage to such a silly level that you have to spam without thought. This only really tests your ability to gear well and press buttons quickly... it doesnt challenge players to be creative or use clever spell selections.

    So to combat those specific problems they are going to nerf OOFSR regen as to cause a minimal impact to dps casters who are 100% inside the FSR. They also stated that would buff talents like meditation so that your regen while casting remains essentially the same.

    How is this not a good change... i'd much rather be tested in terms of creativity and cleaver spell rotations over the ability to press buttons quickly. Instead of taking a minimal amount of information about a change and presenting it as the only thing happening, perahps look at the big picture and conduct a discussion that is worthwhile.

    I'm a bit sick of, omg nerf, omg buff... things are rarely that black & white... as far as I can see this is a good change.

  5. #5

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    Most holy priests "never" leave the FSR these days. Yes, it sucks, but if you can sustain leaving it alltogether, you do. For this reason int is actually slightly better than spirit (for holy) these days, but since spirit also gives spellpower, they come out about equal. A change in the OOFSR regen will modify this balance if you have any OOFSR time at all. And admit it - you do. Even though you never leave the FSR.

    --

    Spirit regen:

    Inside the FSR, 1 point of spirit will still give you about "the same amount as before".

    Currently, for holy priests, this number will scale with your intellect.

    OOFSR_MP5 = 5 * (0.001 + sqrt(Int) * Spirit * 0.005575)
    Assuming 1293 intellect (probable T8 level), the formula above works out so that 1 spirit yields 1 OOFSR_MP5.
    BoK will add 10% to this number. Spirit of Redemption will add another 5%. Humans get another 5%; raidbuffed you will get a 15 or 20% bonus as holy.
    Meditation currently gives you 30% of this as FSR regen.

    Assuming non-human, this means you get 1.15/0.345 MP5 per point of spirit currently.

    --

    3.1 Spirit regen - experiment:

    In 3.1, the OOFSR number will be nerfed significantly. No number has been given, but let's for the fun of it assume it will be cut in half. To counter this, the gains from Meditation will be doubled to no net change inside the FSR.

    Assuming 1293 intellect (probable T8 level), the formula above will work out so that 1 spirit yields 0.5 OOFSR_MP5.
    The old bonuses still apply.
    Meditation will give you 60% of this as FSR regen.

    Assuming non-human, this means you get 0.575/0.345 MP5 per point of spirit in 3.1.

    The major difference is that the value of clearcasting, Inner Focus, Blue Dragon Trinkets and other ways that take you out of the FSR has been cut in two. But keep in mind that no number is given.

    ---

    MP5:

    However, compare this to pure MP5 given the hypotetic claim that spirit will be cut in half:

    1 MP5 gives you 1 MP5. 1 Spirit gives you 0.575/0.345. But 2.5 spirit costs the same itemization as 1 MP5.
    So 1 spirit is worth the same as 1.4375/0.8625 MP5. Depending on whether you leave the FSR, spirit is better or worse than MP5. That's how it is even now, but the gain from spirit will be much less compared to MP5. If you assume 95% FSR time, then 1 spirit equals 0.89 MP5.

    Assuming the OOFSR value of spirit is indeed cut in two, then pure MP5 is now better than spirit if you only count manaregen.

    ---

    Intellect:

    Let's do the same for intellect. This calculation is not changing in 3.1, so it's true both now and then.

    1 int gives 15 mana. Which is worth something by itself.
    Replenishment gives 0.25% of max mana every second. Or 0.1875 MP5 per point of intellect.
    Shadowfiend gives ~40% of your manapool every 300 seconds. Or 0.1 MP5 per point of intellect (assuming used every cooldown)
    Manatide totem gives 24% of your manapool every 300 seconds. or 0.06 MP5 per point of intellect (assuming grouped with a shammy. Stacks)
    Hymn of Hopelessness gives 8% of your manapool every 300 seconds. Or 0.02 MP5 per point of intellect (assuming used eveyr cooldown)
    Blood Elves get 6% of their total mana back every 120 seconds. or 0.0375 MP5 per point of intellect. But lets assume you're not a blood elf.

    BoK increase this value by 10%. You can go deep disc for even more bonus, but let's keep this to holy for now.

    1 point of intellect should give you a nice 0.40 MP5.

    2.5 int will give you 1 MP5. But also some crit. Int is provably better than MP5. Now, and after 3.1.

    Compare that to the 3.0.8 spirit value of 1.15/0.345. Int is holding up; assuming you get some FSR breaks, int and spirit are about equal.
    Or the assumed 3.1 spirit value of 0.575/0.345. Int is better.

    ----

    Conclusion: If you need manaregen, stack int. This is true now, and afetr 3.1

    Right now, int is just as good as spirit for a holypriest. Spirit yields less mana, but also gives spellpower. Good tradeoff.
    You can make good use of spirit now, but depending on the nerf in 3.1, spirit will be significantly worse than int.

    Suggestion to blizzard: If you are not going to make spirit the best stat for manaregen, remove spirit as a stat already. It's pointless.

    ---

    That said -

    It is my stance that this change is a good thing for holypriests, because it will make it easier for us to not leave the FSR. After all, there is minimal gains for doing so. Effectively, we should become a more reliability healer, instead of being the healer that can do anything reasonably well, but only for 2 minutes.

    Unfortunately, we are still fazed with heavy mana troubles if we do not take those OOFSR breaks. Clearcasting gave us that boon for free. No more. As a result, we will need more IFSR regen to be competitive. And I do not see that happening. If you want us to heal like a paladin, we will also need the paladin regen. Sure, you are nerfing the paladin regen. But at least the paladin regen spell - Divine Plea - is worth casting.

    ---
    My current macro in the healing channel when casting Hymn of Hopelessness: "I'm oom. I will now cast Hymn of Hopelessness. This will take 8 seconds, in which I cannot heal. Heal for me. This will gain me 1200 mana. Simply standing around will gain me another 2000 mana. "
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Venara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Cork, Ireland
    Posts
    2,040

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    Thank you Danner

    I think i'll be gemming for Int/MP5 after 3.1 hits, depending on how hard this "nerf" will hit me.

    Another thought of mine:

    Some time ago there was a priest in this forums, holy if i remember correctly, wo enchanted and gemmed only for int and reached a raidbuffed mana pool of somewhat around 35-40k mana. He had replenishment ticks that one can only dream of.

    Maybe this will be the new way to go? ;>
    Armory - WoW-Heroes - Kirakira kagayaku mirai no hikari!

  7. #7

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby
    They will also nerf clearcast proccs so we can't use it to go outside 5sec rule.

    So... Int>Spirit? We will see how much they buff meditation.

    I am a bit worried though, since the class that has the biggest capacity to heal without going oom is clearly paladins, not priests or druids:S
    This is being adressed(huge nerf to divine plea).
    In addition, pallies are only efficient on single target and their talents are being changes in order to reduce their overall efficiency.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,274

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    Blizzard please change so healers need 19 spellpower only, blue/purple gems sell to cheap on the AH.

    Sincerely
    Nezoia, Jewelcrafter

  9. #9

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    Venara:

    Were I to trade all my spirit for int, I would increase my effective manaregen by a notable but not excessive margin while raiding. I would also lose a lot of spellpower, but I don't really see that as a major problem. Holy priests still heal hard.

    By trading spirit for int I would however nerf myself pretty hard in solo play and heroics without a replenisher. Replenishment is responsible for almost half the mana gained from int. It's the best stat for raid-manaregen, but stacking int only makes farming very tedious as you need to stop after four kills and drink no less than three water skins before you continue. This is why a good mix between int and spirit is worthwhile right now.

    Were the OOFSR regen from spirit to be cut in half, it would not really make a significant dent on the value of spirit while raidhealing. Because, IFSR spiritregen is a subpar stat for manaregen compared to int and even MP5 even now. You pick spirit not because it's the best tool for manaregen, but because it's passable and provides some other minor boon, and makes your life easier while not raiding.

    Take that latter point away - and the "nerf" allegedly does - and spirit lost a significant part of its appeal. Stack MP5 for regen while farming, and stack int for raids. Spirit only if you can't avoid it.

    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  10. #10

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    To be honest i havent gemmed for straight spirit once since wrath has come out. I only us Luminous monarch's (9 sp and 8 int)Red Brilliant autumns (+16 int)Yellow and seer's forest emeralds (8 int 8 spirit)Blue.

    i will probably just continue using this, but i wont switch to mp5 since spirit will still give roughly the same amount of mp5 as it does now.

  11. #11
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    6,581

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    Quote Originally Posted by Venara
    Some time ago there was a priest in this forums, holy if i remember correctly, wo enchanted and gemmed only for int and reached a raidbuffed mana pool of somewhat around 35-40k mana. He had replenishment ticks that one can only dream of.
    i dont think there is any possible way to reach 35k mana...please correct me if im wrong. i have pretty decent gear, and as disc i get 15% more int, and im at ~25k raid buffed, i dont see any way of being able to reach 10k more

    brilliant autumn's glow * 11 (the avg sockets if you have all socketable gear) = 176 int

    30 int on wpn

    8 int on 2 rings

    darkmoon card 90 int

    16 int to bracers

    10 int to chest (+10 all stats)

    beaming earthsiege diamond / ember skyflare diamond

    so say you have 25k mana raid buffed, + (176+30+8+90+16+10=4950) = 30k mana raid buffed * 1.02 = 30.6k (about 40 int with either the 2% mana or 2% int gem)

    i dunno how you can squeeze another ~300 int :-\

    "I'm glad you play better than you read/post on forums." -Ninety
    BF3 Profile | Steam Profile | Assemble a Computer in 9.75 Steps! | Video Rendering Done Right

  12. #12

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    what if you were spamming the clever heals already? using the best heal according to the situation in your spam? healing will only get boring, specially since there won't be much of a point to pull out of 5 second rule tricks. innerfocus after procs? using binding heal instead of flash heals during free mana cost proc to get more chance to get another one? all gone. it'll be boring. sit and wait, flash heal..... wait binding heal... wait.... prayer of healing... nice shit!

    DPSing will become more fun and active. definitly respecing shadowpriest or playing my mage in 3.1

  13. #13

    Re: Spirit for Int?

    I raided for a while with no disc priest...took all the cloth healing gear from 25mans...now im a ballin-disc-geared-holy-priest i never go OOM and sit with around 22kmana in raids, dont really need more. Sure, if a bunch of spirit/haste holy gear dropped id take it, but mp5 crit cloth gear kept dropping and as opposed to respeccing, i just added a few int/mp5 gems and its just as good with less incentive to get out of the 5 second rule except to show myself i still know how.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •