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  1. #21

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Since a good healer cannot be defined by numbers as it is different in every encounter and far different depending on which classes are present as well as who is doing what here is a nice wall o' text. I don't know anything about you but this is assuming someone reading this has trouble with healing and wants to know what they are overlooking more than "if your recount is good and no one died you are gooood."

    A good healer understands and anticipates incoming damage. In the same way the dps need to know what damage abilities are going to be used to avoid them (I.E rogue and whirlwind) a healer should understand the different damage patterns on every pull as well as possible over damage from dps not avoiding it (again whirlwind). In a new instance healing is purely reactionary unless you have researched every trash pull and after that healing is mainly proactive but a mix of reactionary as well due to RNG. The healer will also understand the differences in healing each type of tank.

    Understanding each fight takes healing from 'omg their dying spam spam spam' to a calm rhythm and greatly improves efficiency. As one spell is being cast the next spell to two should already be decided based on anticipated damage. You have 1.5 seconds without haste to change your mind should something change. This should also include stop casting.

    With that, a good healer understands all of their spells. They understand the effect of each spell on their HPS (as well as the hps of their combined spells working at once, if possible), heals per mana, how much can be expected from the average heal of that type, and how much extra healing a crit would bring, though it is never safe to count on a crit.

    -note your HPS do not define your healing but rather it defines your maximum throughput of heals. In a fight that everything is going well your hps might sit at 1k, but when things go wrong you may sit around 3-4k hps. Knowing how to maximize this is important when a lot of damage is flying around but a healer should not be judged on their hps on any given fight unless it is evident that they are doing very little healing.

    A good example would be the priest class which I play. In a high damage situation, having a Prayer of mending bouncing, while a renew is ticking on both tanks, circle of healing smacking 5 people and proccing an instant flash heal and a gheal bomb hitting the tank followed by that instant flash heal will generate an enormous amount of healing in the right situation, yet in the wrong situation would be horribly inefficient.-

    A good healer will do their assigned job but still be aware of what the other healers jobs are and be able to pick up other players if that healer is lacking or maybe has to move to avoid damage. A living tank does nothing if all the dps is dead, and all the dpsing being alive is no good if the tank is dead. In an unassigned situation making sure the tanks don't die is number one priority but you should also consider your healing classes strengths. Obviously it doesn't make great sense for the pally to attempt to keep the whole raid up while the shaman heals the tank. People dying because the healing wasn't your assignment is only acceptable if your assignment was taking so much damage it would be impossible not to spam them. In that rare situation a polite "sorry but I had to chose you or the tank" is fine provided the group was not low due to your neglect (but if you let that dpser sit at 50% for 30 seconds and the tank was secure, you have failed).

    In terms of player deaths it is always situational, but even with the best healers death happens. In an educated group of players unless you flat out failed (which happens though it should be rare. ex: your wife starts screaming at you) most people understand why they died. In a newbie group understanding incoming damage is even more important to prevent the next deaths and politely explaining what went wrong, especially in a non-accusing manner helps. A fictional example, "When the tank has 3 stacks ticking on him I have to spam big heals on him, if 8 of you stand in the aoe the entire time, someone will die." This way you haven't singled someone out and called them bad, potentially impacting the raid or leading to an argument which is a waste of time, while putting pressure on the group to do their job.

    In some situations like the last boss of heroic nexus the damage taken meter will help prove your point if the group feels they are not failing, but are each taking more damage than the tank. I would use this lightly, but if one groups incoming damage feels completely different than the last this can be a good indicator of what is going wrong.

    A good healer will always be prepared. Mainly typical in raiding guilds, but as a healer, enchants should be and imo, are required. I have two healed in raids during which I did 80% of the healing and the other healer was baffled because we had comparable gear. After going through his gems and enchants he was missing 200+ healing, 20 mp5, 250 mana, etc just from his enchants as well as having some stam gems, /gasp. If you want to be able to carry inexperienced groups enchants are 100% necessary and if you go oom at 2% and wipe and are unenchanted it is YOUR fault regardless of how bad the group is.

    In a raid environment flask and buff food should be required as well. Sometimes your gems, enchants, and flasks are not necessary but when people make mistakes, especially double pulling, this can be the difference between no one dying and wiping. When you save groups from definite would be wipes consistently you will start to build a reputation for being a great healer and good players will pursue you and trust you. Bad players will as well, but the great part of being a healer is being able to pick and choose your groups.

    As you improve you will know you are doing so when each tank you group with consistently messages you afterwards, and some, will refuse to run without you unless another of their trusted healers is online. At that point you can pick and chose your dps as you wish.

    In terms of comparing healers there really isn't much comparing of great healers and if there is it is usually minor points coming down to style rather than skill. A great healer is a great healer and you will always feel comfortable in a raid with them, and hopefully they will challenge your own skills.

    In terms of good healers it usually comes down to "well he heals well, but he always dies in the fire." It is even more important for you to avoid damage than any other classes. You can have the best timing and judgment in terms of heals, but if you are so absorbed with peoples health bars that you don't move when on flame wave and wipe the raid, or cause the other healer to show his skill and one heal the rest, you are not a great healer. Granted death happens, and sometimes incoming damage is timed horribly with what is happening with the tank, but you should always do your best to avoid taking damage.
    -Also, if you get hit for 4k it is again important to know incoming damage. I've seen too many healers top them self off and the tank dies when it wasn't necessary. At the same time you shouldn't let yourself sit at 60% health.

    In short a good healer, understands his class and each of their spells and uses them as efficiently as possible, how their regen works and exploits it to a T, is prepared, adapts quickly, is very aware, learns damage quickly and anticipates it the next time, stop casts, educates their group (since you have the clearest picture of damage floating around), and most of all, is not afraid to say "that was my fault." In the end this translates to "Group never dies."

  2. #22

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Although 5 mans are a joke we do heroics with our new healers / people who apply to the guild to test them. The test is fairly simple. I tank and one of our officers who is a hunter comes and MDs things to me. He MDs the next pull to me every time MD is up regardless of what we are doing, bosses included. Sometimes the healer does well and everyone lives, some times they call us insane and flip out. Basically the whole point is putting them under pressure and seeing if they crack.

    Just a thought.

    -Meander
    <CryHavoc> and let slip the dogs of war.

  3. #23

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer


    Without question, the key ability of a good healer is awareness. Being able to quickly pick up on an incoming dmg spike, cleanse, or movement mechanic is critical. Anyone with gear can spam a few buttons while standing in one place, so sadly, no "meter" of any kind will be able to tell you which healers are "good" or "bad", only trial and testing will tell you who is good.

  4. #24

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Quote Originally Posted by wasteomana
    Although 5 mans are a joke we do heroics with our new healers / people who apply to the guild to test them. The test is fairly simple. I tank and one of our officers who is a hunter comes and MDs things to me. He MDs the next pull to me every time MD is up regardless of what we are doing, bosses included. Sometimes the healer does well and everyone lives, some times they call us insane and flip out. Basically the whole point is putting them under pressure and seeing if they crack.

    Just a thought.

    -Meander
    <CryHavoc> and let slip the dogs of war.
    Meander makes a great point. A great healer will always be prepared for the worst and react quickly and calmly rather than panicing and spamming. Every now and then in an exceptional group I toss out some dps, but in an overpull situation or when someone pulls aggro it is far better to be ready for the long haul, and be able to dump all your mana, than to have to blow a global cool down on an aggro drop if you have one and be at half mana because you are spitting out your meger dps. Not to mention on a ninja pull (assuming you are still engaged with your previous group) you will most likely take first aggro anyway and its no good if you have dot ticking when this happens.

    This would be a good way to test a healer but if you did it the whole run I would politely keep you alive and you would go on my last resort group list. Also, if you find a good healer this way, odds are they are constantly asked to heal by people they respect and unless you explain your methods while you cream you pants over their heals they are spamming their guild with how terrible their group is.

    This is rarely an issue but every now and then when people have a strong healer they think they can do whatever they want and on several occasions when I was tired I have had to say "just because I can heal you through ridiculous amounts of damage doesn't mean I should have to." Thats not to say with an uber dps group they can't kill the last boss of heroic gun so fast that it is worth healing them through the whirlwind so the entire melee group doesn't have to run, but be considerate. Just like you want a smooth run I don't want to walk into a boringly easy run to heal and have to work my ass off while you play mail wearing tank.

    edit: i missed the part where you said you were the tank and assumed you were a dps class testing the healer in this way. This is far more responsible but I'll leave my post as I like a few of the points. Typically when I have one my regular tanks we take 2-3 groups in heroics at a time (hes a pally) which makes me work much harder but actually makes it a challenge and the run is much faster. I still rarely have to drink (maybe 1-2 times a run) with the current regen state (and I still have a lot of blues as I took a break at the end of bc)...and a side note to that the regen nerf is quite necessary.

  5. #25

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Quote Originally Posted by a13hockey
    Meander makes a great point. A great healer will always be prepared for the worst and react quickly and calmly rather than panicing and spamming. Every now and then in an exceptional group I toss out some dps, but in an overpull situation or when someone pulls aggro it is far better to be ready for the long haul, and be able to dump all your mana, than to have to blow a global cool down on an aggro drop if you have one and be at half mana because you are spitting out your meger dps. Not to mention on a ninja pull (assuming you are still engaged with your previous group) you will most likely take first aggro anyway and its no good if you have dot ticking when this happens.

    This would be a good way to test a healer but if you did it the whole run I would politely keep you alive and you would go on my last resort group list. Also, if you find a good healer this way, odds are they are constantly asked to heal by people they respect and unless you explain your methods while you cream you pants over their heals they are spamming their guild with how terrible their group is.

    This is rarely an issue but every now and then when people have a strong healer they think they can do whatever they want and on several occasions when I was tired I have had to say "just because I can heal you through ridiculous amounts of damage doesn't mean I should have to." Thats not to say with an uber dps group they can't kill the last boss of heroic gun so fast that it is worth healing them through the whirlwind so the entire melee group doesn't have to run, but be considerate. Just like you want a smooth run I don't want to walk into a boringly easy run to heal and have to work my ass off while you play mail wearing tank.

    edit: i missed the part where you said you were the tank and assumed you were a dps class testing the healer in this way. This is far more responsible but I'll leave my post as I like a few of the points. Typically when I have one my regular tanks we take 2-3 groups in heroics at a time (hes a pally) which makes me work much harder but actually makes it a challenge and the run is much faster. I still rarely have to drink (maybe 1-2 times a run) with the current regen state (and I still have a lot of blues as I took a break at the end of bc)...and a side note to that the regen nerf is quite necessary.

    You also missed the part where I said we did this to our new healers (aka guilded) and applicants (aka want to be guilded). I don't do this to random strangers as my repair bill isn't pretty. Its a test, meant to be used as a test not as something to always do.

  6. #26

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Well you can't really say anything about a good or a bad healer until someone dies or you wipe. You can't judge a healer being bad or good until you see their maximum. On most cases when your tanks and dps are good geared plus if you bring excessive amount of healers for a smooth run, it's just a faceroll for them. The only way to see how good the healer is being making them to deal with a challenge. Yeah, a real one (try patchwerk25 with 2 healers). You always get to know your best healers when new content gets released and you have to progress. Often the healer you thought were uber, well geared and stuff just can't take elementary job on progress encounters but the darkhorses in subpar gear deal with it just great. It's mostly all about motivation, but motivation is what really makes a good player in WoW, it's not really that hard but if you try to faceroll it you are never going to be any good.
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  7. #27

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek
    The problem I have with this argument is that it's kind of circular, and ignores a lot of factors that go into whether or not the healer could have done anything to avoid the wipe (if the raid wipes) or actually did anything worthwhile to keep the party alive (if the raid succeeds). Also, how can you know how much better or worse another healer in that same position might have done to know whether your healer is a good or bad one?

    Arguments like "Did I die?" go along these same lines. Are you sure it wasn't the tank's fault that you died because he didn't pick up the mob(s) in time, or perhaps your fault that you pulled agro or stood in the fire?

    Going slightly off topic, I have an anecdote to share.

    I once did H.AN with a pug with a feral tank, a BM hunter and 2 rogues. As any healer who has done that instance knows, there can be A LOT of party damage (especially if certain adds aren't being killed quickly enough or if poisons aren't dispelled in a timely manner). On this particular pug, the dps were horrible - only one of them was able to maintain 1.2k+ dps, and as I'm sure you can imagine, adds that should have been dying fast weren't. Nevertheless, I manage to keep the party alive for every pull but one. (We attempted the achievement on the first boss and failed horribly). On the last boss, I finally went completely OOM at the end of what ended up being a 5 minute long fight (I was spamming HoTs and dispelling poisons as fast as I could while trying to keep myself alive with mobs smacking on me). Just before the party disbanded, the tank said, "bad rogue [referring to a rogue whose dps was consistently below the tank's] and bad healer".

    I was shocked. I kept the party alive through all that and he called me a bad healer? I thought I had misread what he wrote so I whispered him. And he responded: "fail healer is fail".

    Though I don't know his reason for saying this, I can only assume it's because there were times in that fight when some party members were dangerously low on health and he must have thought, "A good healer would have been able to keep them all topped off the entire time."

    I don't know what another tank might have said in his position, but would either have known what it actually took to keep the party alive? Simplistic observations like, "Did we die?" or "Were people dangerously close to dying?" without observing the circumstances that lead to that are probably not enough to justify saying whether or not a healer is good.

    [edit] spelling
    I agree with you here, H AN can be VERY challenging for a good healer with bad or unexperienced dps... I actually just finished one a few minutes ago, second boss people standing in poison, last boss people getting hit by spikes and pound. It was an all melee group with of course didn't help any of this. We downed him after 3 wipes with only myself and the tank still alive. Situations like this I think reflect badly on my ability, but I think there is a line of stupid that even a good healer can't heal through. I know I make mistakes I'm still fairly new to healing, but I think everyone has at some point. I can't stand the arrogance of the people who never make errors, I knew 2 of the party members had never been there so i excepted a wipe or two to think otherwise is just stupid. I guess what burns me up is when i get the impression bad party members think i'm a bad healer, i had a pally tank h cos a few weeks ago that couldn't hold aggro and blamed me for heal aggro early in a fight because omg I healed him when he was at 65%... instead of what just waiting for him to get to 20% or die? bottom line if you haven't healed don't judge someone unless you've considered all factors including the harsh fact it may be your fault not the healers.

  8. #28

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Ektoplasme
    A lot of people already answered the question. It's really difficult to distinguish a good healer from a bad healer in a WWS report. But you can still find some clues buried inside the WWS.

    1) you can check if a healer used every Cooldown during the fight (like power infusion for priests etc.) and if he used his trinkets on CD. Bad healers usually don't bother with their long cooldowns.
    -> Well using CDs as a Healer isn't really something defining good or bad, at least not now.. content is to easy and most of the time its boring as a healer.

    2) check the dispell meter. A good healer may not always top this chart (because sometimes he was not assigned to this task) but a bad healer will always be low on this chart. So use this tool in the long run, not on 1 single specific fight.
    -> Again, this is not telling if the healer is good or bad. Dispeling isn't a job solely for Healer. A DD that is 1 in DMG but never dispelled anything is a bad DD (if he is able to dispel anything at all) in my opinion. Same goes for tankadins. (same goes for, like some other guys already said, tanking and dps. f.e. our druid mt is able to brezz while tanking the boss (depending on the encounter this is impossible ofc), making him a really good tank.)

    3) Check if they used special abilities like Hand of Protection/sacrifice etc. A healer who knows how to use all the tools of the class is a good healer.
    -> Sure using abilitys like that is something any good player does. A Retadin not using HoP, in the right moment, is bad as well. But having to use such abilitys means you have bad DDs. (The best Healer won't prevent a wipe with bad Tanks / DDs / him being the only good healer)
    Quote Originally Posted by wasteomana
    Although 5 mans are a joke we do heroics with our new healers / people who apply to the guild to test them. The test is fairly simple. I tank and one of our officers who is a hunter comes and MDs things to me. He MDs the next pull to me every time MD is up regardless of what we are doing, bosses included. Sometimes the healer does well and everyone lives, some times they call us insane and flip out. Basically the whole point is putting them under pressure and seeing if they crack.
    -> Since, like you already said, 5mans are a joke the only thing you will find out is if the healer is bad. You won't find out HOW good he is, but i guess him/her NOT being a bad healer is good for a start.


    Just a thought.

    -Meander
    <CryHavoc> and let slip the dogs of war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderball
    Well you can't really say anything about a good or a bad healer until someone dies or you wipe. You can't judge a healer being bad or good until you see their maximum. On most cases when your tanks and dps are good geared plus if you bring excessive amount of healers for a smooth run, it's just a faceroll for them. The only way to see how good the healer is being making them to deal with a challenge. Yeah, a real one (try patchwerk25 with 2 healers). You always get to know your best healers when new content gets released and you have to progress. Often the healer you thought were uber, well geared and stuff just can't take elementary job on progress encounters but the darkhorses in subpar gear deal with it just great. It's mostly all about motivation, but motivation is what really makes a good player in WoW, it's not really that hard but if you try to faceroll it you are never going to be any good.
    -> Well Patchwork is more gear/class than skill with 2 Healers, since you heal non stop without pre-casting/canceling and all that. Either you're a Paladin/Well geared or its not going to work.
    One last thing.
    Good or bad also depends on your m8s.

    I once did Sapphiron with 1 Resto-Druid as m8 and we failed. It was really bad :>
    (we just went with whatever was online.. was his first time healing sapph. I did Tank-Heal (Disc-Priest remember? ) and Raid-Heal whenever i had time. I was oom in a blink.

    Next ID we went with another Resto-Druid and our best DDs/Tank. My assignement was, again, Tank-Heal and Raid-Heal whenever i had time. At the end of the Fight we, the Druid and myself, had ~90% Mana left.

    Short: A good Healer needs good m8s.

  9. #29

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Just have to repeat this one more time: WWS and Recount are bad judges of healers.

    I tend to heal as if I'm the only one there. I have HoTs flowing throughout the raid for expected damage even if I'm assigned to a tank. This means that I have huge numbers for most boss fights with little over-heal but the other healers will have high over-heal. I'm a relatively new healer so I have time to change this mindset. It's a waste of my mana and a waste of other healer mana. The waste of mana will classify me as a bad healer but I disagree.

    Old information, I know, but some people just tend to ignore all other factors and place all judgements based on recount/wws.

  10. #30

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Recount isn't everything but ignoring it is crazy in my opinion. Any of our top healers can sit at the top or near the top healer on Recount if they are paying attention and trying hard. It might not mean a lot, but if you can't keep up with other healers when you are trying, then it's probably a sign that you arn't good.

    Good healing and topping recount arn't the same thing. But the skills needed to top recount when other healers are doing the same arn't entirely different to those needed when healing hard encounters; quick reactions, good knowledge of abilities and the ability to predict damage.

    Try asking your healers to top recount on a Naxx run (it's hardly difficult enough for this to matter). Class may make a difference but you might be surprised. Nobody can use the "I was healing the tank" excuse because everyone is healing the tank. Class differences? Well the only person with this excuse should be paladins, and decent paladins should be able to do fairly well anyway.

    I'm not saying you should judge your healers on recount, but you should worry when a healer isn't keeping up. They are probably just slacking though; most people do :P

  11. #31

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Did he keep his assigned targets alive?

    If they died was it because they stood in fire, etc?

  12. #32

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Recount is a valid information source as long as you separate raid healers from tank healers. You don't compare a pally or disc priest to the CH spamming shaman.

    But on the same fight, Recount works to compare two shamans who are both raid healing.

  13. #33

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    1. Take him in heroics and check if he can don't go OOM chain/multiple packs pulling while keeping 500-800 DPS at least
    2. Do Naxx with 5 healers.
    3. Do Malygos with 4 healers.
    4. Do Sartharion10+3 with him.
    5. Do Sartharion25+3 with 6 healers.

    It's very hard to understand if someone specific in raid is good healer if you not sure about other healers.

    If you have 4 good healers and 1 healer "to test" tell him to do hardest things. And especially watch if it doesn't take his 100% focus. A lot of healers don't see anything except grid and their mana bar. Check how fast he react on other things.

    Good healer should know all boss's damaging ability and see them. In 10 people I personally see it on KT, when good healer start to cast 1.5sec cast healing spell before first tick of ice tomb (what bad healer will see only in grid). It means that good healer watch on screen and react on abilities but not just heal damaged target.

  14. #34

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    The ability to react to spike dps (or know how to predict and prepare for it accordingly).

    A good raid can make a bad healer look good and a bad healer can make a good raid look bad so there isn't really any easy and difinitive way that you can judge that where as with dps its... A)you dont die on the encounter B)do big numbers.
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  15. #35

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    I'd say a good healer is defined as such:
    -doesn't stand in bad stuff (though that goes for everyone)
    -makes good use of his dispel capacities (again, goes for everyone who can dispel stuff)
    -coordinates his healing with the rest of the raid (ie. you heal the tank, I heal the raid)
    -as goes with the above, does his best not to snipe other heals, nor does he mindlessly spam the flash heal on his primary targets doing massive overheals while another healer might be in trouble keeping his up)
    -doesn't run oom halfway through the fight because of mindless healing spam
    -informs others if there is a problem that prevents healing (out of range, LoS, etc)

    Note that healing meters can be informative, but you need to read them in context. A disc priest does quite a bit of damage prevention that effectively equals heals but don't show on the meters, and a druid might fall off when he has to compete with an overeager priest.

  16. #36

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Quote Originally Posted by proga
    1. Take him in heroics and check if he can don't go OOM chain/multiple packs pulling while keeping 500-800 DPS at least
    2. Do Naxx with 5 healers.
    3. Do Malygos with 4 healers.
    4. Do Sartharion10+3 with him.
    5. Do Sartharion25+3 with 6 healers.

    It's very hard to understand if someone specific in raid is good healer if you not sure about other healers.

    If you have 4 good healers and 1 healer "to test" tell him to do hardest things. And especially watch if it doesn't take his 100% focus. A lot of healers don't see anything except grid and their mana bar. Check how fast he react on other things.

    Good healer should know all boss's damaging ability and see them. In 10 people I personally see it on KT, when good healer start to cast 1.5sec cast healing spell before first tick of ice tomb (what bad healer will see only in grid). It means that good healer watch on screen and react on abilities but not just heal damaged target.
    If you find that difficult I'll have to ask you to log out right now.

  17. #37

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Quote Originally Posted by Shapeshiftr
    If you find that difficult I'll have to ask you to log out right now.
    Not very hard, but if you are not sure in 1 healer and wanna check him you should rely that you go with 4 healers.
    Naxx with 4 healers is ok, don't link me Fusion's WWS with "2 healers only" that is not truth. More correct is "some Naxx' bosses with 2 healing-specced players only". I don't think something like Elem shammy or Moonkin that healed in amount of 1/2 of pure specced healer is counted as Naxx with 2 healers.

  18. #38

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    id say healers are the toughest to determine if theyre any good or not

    an easy check is things like kel thuzad iceblock and in tbc the lynx rush

    reflexes are a healers life, if you got those your already a long way

  19. #39

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    Also 2k+ arena rating in 5v5 is a good sign about healer.

  20. #40

    Re: Analysis of a "Good" Healer

    The only difference I see is how one can react to priorities and can dispel debuffs. Some people just plain sucks at removing debuffs.

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