3.0.9

[Deleted]

Let's be serious, the DP nerf is something that we all should have expected since the beta.
ATM its simply OP, u can use DP + AW + some spell bonus trinket + divine illumination and WHILE u regen a lot of mana u heal even more than the usual, and as a result in a normal fight (not too intensive) after 10 secs ull have a lot of mana back, without ur haling power suffering too much.

I'm more pissed bout the glyph nerf, even if this is op aswell -_-

[Keile]

EXACTLY - that's why there has to be some kind of penalty, it's not a primarily Holy ability.

Actually blizzard states time and time again that the main purpose of Divine Plea was to help Protection and Retribution paladins mainly.

Too many Holy pallies saw this as an easy "I'm never going to OOM" skill, and ignored MP5.  Mana became a non-issue and they could just heal to their hearts content, then hit plea every 1 minute.

The way things were working pallies never had to worry about mana while healing, they might as well have not even had the freakin' mana bar.

It is because of this that Blizzard reworked it to make it a button you dont WANT to have to hit every 1 minute, it's there for when you need it but it isnt something that you should want to have to press.

I'm talking about how currently Mp5 is not worth it for Holy, with both Plea and Replenishment we need little to no mp5

That was the entire reason for the DP change.  Pallies were ignoring MP5 and relying on this skill as their crutch.

[Dæs]

That was the entire reason for the DP change. Pallies were ignoring MP5 and relying on this skill as their crutch.

True, but the change to Plea isn't going to stop the use of it for holy. When Spaming HL, you are working to keep the Tank at 100% at all times, i'm sure more then 50% of my heal's won't be needed. All this change will do is make me spam HL more and less FoL, 50% of a HL can keep a tank up, not so true with FoL.

If they really wanna make Mp5 worthwhile for holy (given the current trend of int stacking for replenishment / Plea), give us some kind of stat conversion for it, base it off Int / haste / Sp / hell even Spirit, i don't care. Untill Plea becomes "Base" mana or 100% less healing, Holy will still use it.

[Keile]

True, but the change to Plea isn't going to stop the use of it for holy. When Spaming HL, you are working to keep the Tank at 100% at all times, i'm sure more then 50% of my heal's won't be needed. All this change will do is make me spam HL more and less FoL, 50% of a HL can keep a tank up, not so true with FoL.

If they really wanna make Mp5 worthwhile for holy (given the current trend of int stacking for replenishment / Plea), give us some kind of stat conversion for it, base it off Int / haste / Sp / hell even Spirit, i don't care. Untill Plea becomes "Base" mana or 100% less healing, Holy will still use it.

EXACTLY!  They don't want to STOP holies from using it, they just don't want it to be a requirement to press it every 1 minute.  It is supposed to be an EMERGENCY ability when you desperately need to get some mana back.  Even if you don't let it run its 12 second course, you still get some mana back and it could help big time.

Also, remember that pallies get mana back from their Crits as well.  So they get mana back via crits and mana back via plea; that's to compensate for the lack of MP5 conversion.   Now I'm not by any means saying it is a PERFECT system and/or a perfect replacement for a stat-conversion or pure MP5, but it's there.

I have a feeling once people start getting into Ulduar holy pallies will get what they need, for all we know the new plate will have more MP5 on it than current plate.

[Dæs]

EXACTLY! They don't want to STOPAlso, remember that pallies get mana back from their Crits as well. So they get mana back via crits and mana back via plea; that's to compensate for the lack of MP5 conversion.

Yep before Plea, we where / are the only healing class without an active mana regen, we have to cast to get mana back, and even if we crit, we are still losing mana.

I'd be happy if they rebuffed Illumination and Removed Plea, or made the penalty 100% or base mana. Only Problem is that Illlumination was nerfed because of Season 1, damn you PvP *shakes fist*. But if you think about it, that would be a nerf to Arena. Mana burn a pally to OOM and they have no way of getting that mana back. With the current Plea, we never go OOM in arean anyway, wasn't that why they nerfed Illumination in the first place?

Though if they Rebuff Illumination to 100% and make the Debuff of Plea 100%, we would have less mana regen but go back to Crit stacking instead of Int stacking.

[afkalmighty]

Either I missed it or no one seems to care or notice the nerf to ret pvp

I might start trying to steal BoFs again

[Googolplex]

The holy pally in our guild is litterally never below 80% mana. Due to a combo of crit and mp/5 build and the trink from Naxx that gives like 900 mana anytime you crit. That coupled with decent mana return to begin with means litterally never OOM.

That trinket has an internal CD mate, its not even remotely close to "anytime you crit"...

[Dæs]

Either I missed it or no one seems to care or notice the nerf to ret pvp
I might start trying to steal BoFs again

At least Plea can't be purged / spell stolen, that makes me a happy holy.

[fendrix]

False. MP5 was an important stat in BC.

The fact that paladins have illumination means MP5 will never be an important stat.

[Majokin]

raiding with -750mp5 (without plea on cd) will be very ... nice. content will be more hard as holypala.

[septuagon]

I agree to an extent with the view that DP was acrutch for Holydins, but it is a really big nerf. Idc because my main spec is retribution. I like the 30 min seals. I can take it off my main combat bar now.

[cassi]

in pve haven'treally needed to use plea in combat only out off combat that is ofc only atm dunno about ulduar
for me its in pvp its more like buff it now gives mana back and none felhunter/spellsteal/dispell/purge/hunter shot forgot the name(its not arcane shot anyway anymore) xD/

and when you want the mortal off in pvp just click it off or heal ms on its better than you was oom and was not getting one single heal off then

[Elementium]

man all these buffs.. let's hope if they fix armor penetration to be useful our skills don't get nerfed

anyway, it's finally good to be a pally. Although i'll admit I made mine in BC because the guild needed a healer and i wanted to have one with survivability.

[lumnights]

Personally, I think 50% is a little rough. 40% or less would have been more to my liking. But I like this change. It's a lot better than many of the other changes that people thought would come to nerf our replenishment (something that actually really needed to be done). If you look back at prior beta versions of Plea (healing reduced by 100%), it's clear that it wasn't really meant to be a Holy Pally tool in the first place. It turned into one because Holy Pallies whined and moaned about it and Blizzard caved. Is it unfair that they're now going back and correcting their mistake? Not really.

If Divine Plea truly was intended as a way for ret and prot to maintain decent mana pools during combat, then Blizz surely didn't think about the effect it would have on holy. There must have been a better way (messing with judgement of wisom perhaps...) of giving those paladins their mana pools without attracting or teasing holy pallies. Something like DP won't be ignored by the one talent spec who can utilize it most, and there's going to be some entitlement felt when it's suddenly ripped away from them.

Secondly, I hear a lot about paladins who "never run out of mana". There are so many reasons why a paladin wouldn't run out of mana (great tanks, dps who actually know how to avoid damage, high dps so the paladin doesn't have to heal that long, etc) and usually all those people run in the same circles - The elites, who have the best gear, and the best know-how. This population however, makes up very little of the WoW populace. I've seen many paladins run out of mana recently, especially those paladins who are just learning heroics and raids. For those players, this nerf is very discouraging, and I suspect they will think this is Blizz's way of saying that their already stressful job, is too easy.

This isn't about the "1337" players (though surely that's who Blizz is targetting with this nerf, and I feel ignoring what it will do to everyone else), it's about those who are not or cannot be on the bleeding edge of game progression. Should a paladin have to use a potion each fight so they can continue casting their heals at full-strength? Should a paladin have to spam the same spell twice to reach the desired effect? Many will say "l2pay" or "maybe you should learn how to heal more efficiently", and in some cases, that's exactly what needs to happen; But you could take the best healer in the world and put them in a 25-man with a bunch of morons who don't know how to avoid AoE's and the like, and I promise they'll feel the mana pinch. When it comes down to "ok, heal this guy and use mana or let him die because I need to heal people who know how to play (and netting a loss in dps, which invariably costs more mana because the mob/boss is alive longer) and spend my mana more efficiently." I'm really going off on a tangent here, but the point is: no healer will just let someone die because they want to be more mana efficient, and since the non-elite healers tend to be grouped up with the non-elite tanks and dps'ers, they have to spend more mana than the elites who evidently never run out, and that shouldn't be held against them.

Personally, I think 50% is a little harsh. Though I can see where Blizz is coming from, I think their attempt to correct the situation is a bit misdirected and will lessen the numbers of holy paladins out there, and discourage those who were even thinking about giving it a shot.

Peace all, here's hoping this nerf isn't as bad as I think it'll be.

Edited for for spelling, grammar, punctuation. I always miss something >.<

[Abandon]

Just wanted to respond to that well thought out, well written post, and agree on a point. I am a frost DK tank, and almost always do heroics and raids with my friend, who plays a holy paladin. And he does indeed seem to have infinite mana, never having to drink...unless I pay less attention to my tanking rotation and start taking more damage. The better the people you are running with, the easier your healer will have it and the more effective they will be.

[Lumidar]

Either I missed it or no one seems to care or notice the nerf to ret pvp

I might start trying to steal BoFs again

im not sure what nerf you're talking about...

Sanctified Seals only prevented seals from being dispelled and now that is working 100% of the time for all specs.

BoF was always able to be purged unless you have Stoicism which has a 30% chance to not be purged.

so no Nerf...

[DTJ]

Whoosh... i was talking about how everyone is bitching that this "nerf" is going to change our mana regen, its not, its going to lower our Hps while Plea is active. I was saying that blizzards upcoming changes to "mana regen' is going to change spirit and its affect while not casting, a.k.a. the 5 sec rule, and how this will not change pally regen, as we are never in the 5 sec rule.... you speaka english?

QFT!

I can't wait to go from 80% overhealing to 30%

(all numbers are stated in jest, so keep it in your pants)




On a side note, 50% might be slightly too harsh for arena paladins, but we shall see how it plays out.....


PS:QFT = Quoted for truth

[Mur.]

Divine plea nerf doesn't affect me because I don't use the bastard. I use it out of combat if anything, or during a boss fight where nothing is going on. Paladins coped without it before just fine.

In Crit Rating we trust. Forget mp5, stack crit.

[Stillborn]

Honestly, from a PVE healadin PoV the DP nerf doesn't make a difference to me and other SP/crit/haste fans.
I always thought it was pretty stupid to gem for intellect, because the only thing you gained was the ability to mindlessly spam Holy Light without having to worry about mana. The thing is, there is no use for mindless HL spam cause you only end up with the majority of your healing done being ineffective.

[Blightmare]

On a side note, 50% might be slightly too harsh for arena paladins, but we shall see how it plays out.....

Too harsh as in
/cancelaura God Mode
?

Cause I think the Divine Plea change was mostly PvP based to begin with.