Who else can see it comming?

[Ghul]

yeah it may be the most powerfull buff, but whats wrong with that? u cant nerf everything just because its the best, that would result in neverending nerfing of the actualy most powerful buff.

and besides, fortitude gives 165 stamina and that without the talent that increases its effect by 30%. just to correct the op here 8>

[thoukaia]

i cant wait to see what they gonna put in there to replace BoK... i mean they cant just let the 15% strength take up whole t1...

[SFJake]

Well, I see nothing wrong with it... its very powerful... yes.. so?.. Its not MANDATORY.. they are not making anything around your group having it. So no, no issues there.

[Magadansky]

MotW, Healthstones, Mana Tide and yes even BL/Heroism are not required to raid... Kings is increasingly becomming a 'required' buff. In TBC SP, Haste and to some degree crit were dominate stats (not in every case but in a majority). Now its almost like it was in the early days of classic where raw stats were valued above and the numbers are getting to a point where 10% is a massive boost.

The problem is the game doesnt scale in percentages and percentage buffs increasingly become OP over time. I said a long time ago that the racial stam buff Taurens had would get nerfed and it did.

Maybe it won't be nerfed now but it will at some point... I used AI as an example... AI was 40 int from memory, its now 60int... kings now gives my Holy Pally who is hardly geared 140 int in a 25man raid setting... and that's excluding the benefts I get to Stam... as these numbers increase (and they will) kings will just get more and more out of balance and I know Blizzard can see that as well...

Mana Tide and yes even BL/Heroism are not required to raid?

You've been raiding too much WotLK Naxx. Try hard TBC content.

[Lark]

i cant wait to see what they gonna put in there to replace BoK... i mean they cant just let the 15% strength take up whole t1...

You'll probably see one of the other basic five talent abilities get moved back, like toughness or something new. I doubt it will be a pleasure filled change, though.

[Heza]

My guess is that the 2% boost will be baseline, and you'll still have to use up 4 talent points to improve it.

thats like its today par rank 1 being baseline. so no. maybe im too optimistic but i believe that it stays 10% even tho its changed to a baseline spell.

and just a random thought. it brings my piss to a boil that this community(and blizz obviously) wants every class to be the same. "omfg palas have that imba buff, nerf it to same lvl as our buffs". or "OMFG hunters are doing insane dps, nerf them to oblivion so that every dps class has exactly the same dps".

if this trend keeps on going, well soon have 1 class mmo.

[davep]

if they do require talents to improve the baseline kings i doubt it will be 4 points, if anything it will be 2/3 points making baseline 4% and each point either 3% or 2%

[Jesana]

You do all remember that kings used to be a 1 point talent for the whole 10%, right? How is 1 talent point so much different than having it baseline?

[fendrix]

You do all remember that kings used to be a 1 point talent for the whole 10%, right? How is 1 talent point so much different than having it baseline?

It use to be a 31 point talent though :3

Next expansion, I can see them changing Kings to 10% of your unmodified stats (after gear, but before buffs) or 10% increase to your highest stat only (if you have 400 STR and 800 STA, you get a 10% increase in STA).

[Profile]

thats like its today par rank 1 being baseline. so no. maybe im too optimistic but i believe that it stays 10% even tho its changed to a baseline spell.

and just a random thought. it brings my piss to a boil that this community(and blizz obviously) wants every class to be the same. "omfg palas have that imba buff, nerf it to same lvl as our buffs". or "OMFG hunters are doing insane dps, nerf them to oblivion so that every dps class has exactly the same dps".

if this trend keeps on going, well soon have 1 class mmo.

And people will still play, and still complain.

[Worshaka]

Mana Tide and yes even BL/Heroism are not required to raid?

You've been raiding too much WotLK Naxx. Try hard TBC content.

Feel free to armory my achievements... BL/Heroism, Mana tide and most of the buffs going around now aren't a requirement to raid... perhaps they will be in the future...

Kings is increasingly becomming a requirement and the position blizzard have made and stated many times is that no class is going to bring a buff so necessary as to become a necessity.

So first we need to evaluate whether kings is that powerful and I believe it is... as stats increase the 10% is becomming hugely significant. Most spreadsheets or dps tools show that kings make the stacking of stats highly desireable... try taking off kings in those tools and see how less effective it is to do it.

So if the buff is becomming powerful there are 2 avenues blizzard will take... 1. it's nerfed or 2. it's made available by more than 1 source. If it's becomming baseline with no mention of other classes getting somethign similar my summation is it will be nerfed.

I've yet to see anyone make an intelligent comment to make me think otherwise.

[tommy0guns]

first off, the 10% to kings really only applies to about 2 stats per player. as a Ret pally i see only a significant increase in +Str that relates to my dmg dealing. 10% +Stam is a side effect, 10% +Agi and +Int is minor, 10% +Spi is moot.

second, the current state of the Kings talent is that i need to move 5pts to get a buff that is not usable for me(same with Tankadins). so in 5man and 10man i am sitting there with Kings on my hotbar but not on my buffbar. then when i am able to give it out to others, i need to choose between Kings and Might. in 25man this is not a problem since every buff is covered, usually multiple times.

Kings is the stepchild of blessings. each talent tree has its respective blessing already. Kings doesn't make sense in any of them. nor would an imp Kings.

Kings is a nice buff to have, but it is not the end-all. my mage benefits more from imp Faerie Fire(3% hit) than from Kings atm since i can gem for raw +Spell instead. Kings gives me mana...i dont need mana. so losing that 1 Boomkin or 1 SP hurts my mage more than losing all of the Pallies in my raid.

dont get me started on the benefit of having a Ret pally in raid.

[Piscesthepally]

I think they will change it eventually to be a ranked spell, and it will stop being percent based, so it will simply give a flat number of stats to everyone equally

[Sanguissa]

You got the point.

I hope blizzard didnt noticed it..or if they ever did, so do it in ONE patch, dont change everything every single patch .. small qq

[Ugrana]

1. If they keep a 4 point talent in the prot tree, which im sure they wont, blizzard will have QQ from paladins saying how weird a 4 point talent feels, cause it would.

2. If blizzard wanted it to be a mandatory buff, they would give it to multiple classes.(Think Replenishment)

3. It might not be a baseline 10%, because it is getting a little OP, but i also do not think it will be a baseline 2%, cause anyone in their right mind would think its gimp.

im thinking a 5-8% to all stats buff, taking out the 4point Improved and probably giving prot paladins another oh shit button, cause thats the only thing they really lack.

[kailtas]

this is kinda fail thread.
im gona tell u why

the guy is saying: kings is OP, make it weaker for baseline.

now when hes going to raid: he got 2 palas in his 25 man ulduar.
none of them specced increse kings.
he makes his way to, lets say 4th boss.
with his 5% stat increse every1 is: meh whatever it's only 5%.

then they end up whiping at 5% of boss.
wich woud coud have been avoided by kings buff being 10%.

so basicly he is whining to nerf himself...
just like the BM hunter piece of shit: buuhuu the total raid damage is high, nerf!


danm retards stop looking at 1 class.
if u are pve'ing, u will be picked if u are a reliable and active member of the guild.
if u keep whining like a kid then u can just go uninstal game cause ure whining to nerf urself.

[Ugrana]

One problem with the above post, THERE ISNT GOING TO BE AN IMP KING TALENT ANYMORE

[Mandible]

what notes says so?

[tommy0guns]

i dont understand the crying for a 2nd class to carry Kings.

right now Kings is available to EVERY pally. with the new change, Kings will be available to EVERY pally. whoa!

every raid will have at least 1 pally(if you do not, take your fail pill right now). so for another class to have access to psuedo-Kings is pointless.

there are at least a dozen raid buffs that are exclusive to only a few specs, let alone entire classes. Replenishment was brought up as an example. you only have 4 specs that could bring this much needed buff, and they are ALL dps.

the Replenishment buff was given to separate classes because it gives you better odds of having one of those classes in your raid. Kings does not need to be inter-class because you already will have 3 specs(and roles) that are able to bring it.

Kings will remain 10% and pally only.

while we are at it, lets consider giving Warriors some auras, totems, and soul shards.

[Worshaka]

You are all missing the point.

1. I love kings, awesome buff, imo the best buff in the game

2. Objectively, Kings is extremely powerful, so powerful that it is increasingly becomming a 'required' buff instead of a nice buff to have. This is particularly the case because the raw numbers in the game are incredibly high, so high that % buffs completely overpower stagnant stat gains. Now this was always the case but the gap is more extreme now that it ever was and it's going to increase. An example is to look at AI (60 Int) vs 140 int + 100 stam from my part geared holy pally. This illustrates just how powerful a buff it is.

3. Whether you agree or not, Blizzard do not want specific classes to become 'required' nor do they want buffs to dominate the raid environment unless they can be provided by multiple classes. This is seen with replenishment, we started with spriests in BC, now we have spriests, hunters and ret pallys, and now we're looking at seeing Locks & mages be included.

4. If kings is such a powerful buff to get to the point of it being 'required' and only 1 class can bring that buff, whether you agree with the philosphy or not, you have to admit that blizzard with either a) Nerf the buff to make it less 'required' b) give the buff to other classes.

5. I have no doubt that Blizzard are making the spell baseline due to the fact that Prot & Holy Paladins are forgoing that buff which causes a case of making Ret paladins slightly more 'required'. But once the buff is baseline and raids expect to have it, it makes the entire Paladin class required and again (whether you agree or not) the current philosphy is to bring the player not the class and as such no class is 'required'.

So instead of going off on tangents, keep that in mind when you have something to say.