DPS Plate itemization failed again

[Prentice]

I haven't seen it posted by anyone else yet so I am posting what I noticed.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...plateboots.jpg

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...fthetitans.jpg

Numerous posters have commented about how the itemization of the T8 gear/T8 Equivalent gear will be improved, but these first glimpses of gear fail to prove that. The craftable DPS plate belt/boots appear to be yet another failure when considering itemization. What do plate wearing DPSers need with all of that stamina?? When compared with the tank craftable gear, the DPS gear has 23 more stamina per piece!!! And whats with the ridiculous over-use of haste on our gear?!?!?! Caster gear has a set of legit desirable stats like Int, Spirit, and a moderate amount of stamina.

The belt appears to be less fail than the boots. While the two sockets on the boots are nice, it still doesn't justify the haste or the fact that the boots have nearly 100% more stamina than strength. The socket bonuses are good, but I will assume that most people won't gem for them because two strength gems will still be better.

Having seen the graphics for the T8 armor set, I am less than impressed (especially with the helm). If the itemization of T8 gear looks anything like these crafted pieces, the QQ floodgates are about to blow wide open.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

A: You're overreacting. Just because they said they'd make improvements doesn't mean it'll be perfect at the word go.

B: Stamina costs 1/2 of what Strength costs, so actually it's even itemization. Anytime you get more variety of stats on your gear, you wind up with more total points.

C: They said they wanted to buff haste for melee, I predict that before this patch goes live, it will be equivalent in power to crit/hit/expertise per point, seeing as how it costs the same.

[Soad0488]

Expertise is a desierable stat for Retribution paladins so uhhhh, why are you complaining about the belt?

And also it is too early in the PTR to tell what will come of the benifit haste provides.

[Azain]

expertise is overused tho, unlike str / crit / (soon-to-be-we-hope) haste there is a clearly defined cap and it is hard for a lot of players to get below that cap pre 3.1. i would rather socket for expertise to get me to that cap (much like i do with hit) than be forced into it on so many pieces. haste if buffed properly, would be a welcome stat on gear much like hit or crit would. armor pen appears to be useless again, so hopefully haste is changed to become a main stat for melee dps. palliesthrowstuff is correct, when determining ilvl stam is half the cost of str, and while most of us would rather donate ilvl stats to str even at a 1:2 cost of stamina that isn't going to happen. on pve gear stamina is the overflow stat, blizzard sets what they feel is a happy balance of dps stats, and puts the rest into stam, don't look for that to change anytime soon.

i wish they would roll up some stats, maybe armor pen and haste into expertise, so that the number of dps stats we have is actually lowered, there really is no reason to expand. get hit and base expertise capped, then go for str / crit / exp above and beyond with gems and enchants. if expertise had the -dodge/parry effect to a soft cap via DR, but granted some small amount of haste / ArP as well, then the current gear itemization would fit much better.

[Soad0488]

socketing for hit is a horrible idea.

[Azain]

as a retadin sure, as a TG warrior i disagree, all depends on what gear is available to you. some warriors don't believe in the soft cap, and the amount of crit / haste / expertise on plate gear outweights that of hit.

edit - i realize this is the pally forums, i was merely trying to shed light on the BS itemization, its not just retadins that use it

[Splatter]

who's to say you arent going to need that stam to survive some sort of fight in Ulduar ? I remember certain classes (mainly healers) having to wear a bit of pvp gear on certain fights where there was high raid damage (i.e. Najentus)

[bals]

@belt 3x16str gems = 48 str, which is alot.

These look alot like the bt/mh pattern drops. i.e., not itemized well vs their counterparts that drop in the dungeon but it is something that can be crafted for a fresh 80 that would be a large upgrade

[Elementium]

They still said they were going to rework some stats to be more desirable for us plate dps.

[Jynn]

Less Haste, More Expertise Plox

[Lionheartex]

Consider: Crafted Gear has never been itemized properly (excluding Sunwell patterns)

Look at the Titansteel items... the only items that ever really lasted was the Spiked Helm and the Shield- most people found better alternatives form blues or Naxx 10 epics.

Even the BT shoulders and Bracers weren't any good.


You can't expect every piece of gear to be perfectly itemized- that would take away the challenge of gear tuning overall. There'll be heaps of Plate and I'm sure that these crafted items are merely alternatives for the loot that won't drop.

I do know the crafted holy belt/boots look pretty decent, despite the lack of crit- and at least it has Intellect on it this time and sockets to boot.

[Prentice]

who's to say you arent going to need that stam to survive some sort of fight in Ulduar ? I remember certain classes (mainly healers) having to wear a bit of pvp gear on certain fights where there was high raid damage (i.e. Najentus)

I am not saying that these items should be stam-less like the Spiked Helm, but there could be a slightly better use of the points. Instead of 69 str/126 stam, how about 82 str/100 stam? That would make a lot more sense by lowering the stamina value below that of the tanking gear. That is my point. As any player should already know, stamina is very cheap itemization-wise. This is an overuse of the stat tho. I doubt that anyone would honestly agree that the dps gear should have more stamina than the tanking gear. The stam issue is my only complaint about the belt.

As far as the overreaction to haste... As a pally, our gear has been littered with haste since the day the stat was created making it unnecessarily difficult to achieve hit/expert cap without gemming/enchanting, which ain't happenin.

To better display this:

5pc Valorous haste stats
Paladin:270
Rogue:163
Death Knight:149
Warrior: 0

Other classes get stronger values in hit, crit, and expertise. Is equality too much to ask(and I do realize that all of the other classes have the ability to dual-wield)??

[Varaben]

I haven't seen it posted by anyone else yet so I am posting what I noticed.

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...plateboots.jpg

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...fthetitans.jpg

Numerous posters have commented about how the itemization of the T8 gear/T8 Equivalent gear will be improved, but these first glimpses of gear fail to prove that. The craftable DPS plate belt/boots appear to be yet another failure when considering itemization. What do plate wearing DPSers need with all of that stamina?? When compared with the tank craftable gear, the DPS gear has 23 more stamina per piece!!! And whats with the ridiculous over-use of haste on our gear?!?!?! Caster gear has a set of legit desirable stats like Int, Spirit, and a moderate amount of stamina.

The belt appears to be less fail than the boots. While the two sockets on the boots are nice, it still doesn't justify the haste or the fact that the boots have nearly 100% more stamina than strength. The socket bonuses are good, but I will assume that most people won't gem for them because two strength gems will still be better.

Having seen the graphics for the T8 armor set, I am less than impressed (especially with the helm). If the itemization of T8 gear looks anything like these crafted pieces, the QQ floodgates are about to blow wide open.

We will need the stamina bro. Higher level dungeons = more raid dmg. We will need 30k raid buffed HP at the end of ulduar i promise. Also you are lookign at crafted gear. Why should it be as well itemized? They have also said they are trying to improve haste. You are looking at the tip of the iceberg and saying WTF this is worthless, but theres no telling what else will change. These items are based on other assumptions and changes that we have no witnessed yet. and PS: the belt isnt bad at all.

[Prentice]

This seems like a waste of time. I doubt that any of the above replies have even looked at the crafted tanking gear to understand why I am complaining.

Raid damage increased in Ulduar... GOT IT!!

DPS(126 Stam) having more HP than the Tank(103 Stam)... WTF???

Get the point?

Stamina is a filler stat. This has been seen many many times and is understood. Until haste is useful, I will complain about the overuse of it. At least the gear could appear better itemized. 25% more Stam on the DPS boots than the Tank boots will never make sense to me regardless of how you want to spin it.

And again... the only complaint about the belt was the Stam. L2Read please?

[Kishin]

them boots add alot of Strenght if you socket 2x +16 STR into em.
i dun see how they suck.
Btw, at some point in the game our dps will be so high that a pve ret pala "needs" some higher stamina+.
It needs to be in balance to the HP we lose through the dmg we do. As dps increases, hp has to increase as well (at least for ret palas)

[Xs]

I don't see how they could make Haste good for Ret, unless they make it reduce the cooldown on stuff, which they won't

[Prentice]

them boots add alot of Strenght if you socket 2x +16 STR into em.
i dun see how they suck.
Btw, at some point in the game our dps will be so high that a pve ret pala "needs" some higher stamina+.
It needs to be in balance to the HP we lose through the dmg we do. As dps increases, hp has to increase as well (at least for ret palas)

I completely agree with the comment about the strength that can be gained by the two sockets. Who doesn't want a pair of boots and a belt that each have 101 Str(109 with epic gems)?? I hadn't considered the SotM/SoB damage, but I still don't see that justifying that our boots exceed the hitpoints of the tank boots. Like I said, knock the boots down to ~100 Stam, and comp the 26 Stam loss with other stats. Good forbid that these boots had some hit rating on them. Even if it was a nominal amount of hit. This may be way off because I not familiar with the itemization expense of hit, but what about 15 hit rating?? Every little bit helps.

Boots
1614 Armor
69 Str
100 Stam
2x Sockets
49 Crit
48 Haste
15 Hit

It would be nice to never have to worry about hit and what people say regarding whether or not to gem/enchant for it or not because you would have plenty of it. I can't say that my gear has ever had enough hit rating that it was never a concern for me, even while raiding Sunwell. When the haste stat was introduced, it took priority over every other stat and some of the stats we really wanted (Str, Hit, Exp) fell off the chart. We started seeing a lot of gear with Crit Rating( good thing, but any Sunwell ret paladin better already have hella crit), Agility( more crit), Attack Power (wtb Strength), and Haste.

It takes a large amount of haste to see significant benefits of it. I understand that any haste value should increase dps, but as I said "significant".

[Deleted]

Blizzard is putting so much haste/arp on gear to ensure that any fury/dk/ret dps has to made choices on their balance of gear. If there were
for each armor slot items like 120str/70crit + 3 red gems, everyone would hunt them or save dkp for those items, and rest parts with other stats would be "trash".