Holy spec for ulduar, 23/48... Is this Viable?

[Kalgram]

I choose a different, but yet still interesting spec. 28/43 (its some healing reduction w/ a lot of mp5 still- and you get Coh woot =D)
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...3&version=9658

However I wouldnt mind some feedback on this spec myself please ^^? I also did some math and after you get to about 18% haste raid buffed you only need 1/3 serendipidity imo (becuase of enlightenment granting 6%- so 12% on gear).
(assuming 5/5 DF and 12% haste on gear)
Total time- First cast second cast third cast Fourth cast etc
3/3 enlightenment + 1/3 serendipity:
Greater heal GH: 1.804 GH: 3.854 GH: 5.904 GH: 7.954

POH POH: 2.1648 POH: 4.6248 POH: 7.0848 POH: 9.5448

2/3 enlightenment + 2/3 serendipity:
Greater heal GH: 1.596 GH: 3.696 GH: 5.796 GH: 7.896

POH POH: 1.915 POH: 4.4352 POH: 6.9552 POH: 9.4752



1/3 enlightenment + 3/3 serendipity: GH: 1.376 GH: 3.526 GH: 5.676 GH: 7.826
Greater heal

POH POH: 1.6512 POH: 4.2312 POH: 6.8112 POH: 9.3912

0/3 enlightenment + 3/3 serendipity:
Greater heal GH: 1.408 GH: 3.608 GH: 3.608 GH: 5.808

POH POH: 1.6896 POH: 4.3296 POH: 6.9696 POH: 9.6096

(I choose what I thought to be 4 main combinations, I only went to four because in a 25 man raid environment your best to get 2, better 3 with luck in a row at any given time during a mass raid dmg environment.) So 3/3 enlight. w/ 1/3 seren. is slightly slower, but only by up to 0.428 seconds for gheal and .5136 seconds for POH using 1/3 enlight 3/3 seren. So it too depends on the cast times of other healers in your guild

0/3 enlight is Slightly slower then 1/3 with 3/3 seren (which can be your typical deep holy build also). This also leads into that deep holy can get healing prayers, but that's only about 1200 mana at most lost per mass raid dmg. I took 3/3 enlightenment because it also reduced ur GCD and increases scaling mp5, and normally these casts are only used in specific events- so note every other spell will be 6% faster.

It's also helpful in that since you get an extra 6% haste you can stack crit for other items and all items with high int & spirit- so in pre ulduar endgame for patch isn't is Possible to get CLOSE to these numbers...? 1250 mp5 out of 5 second rule, 30% crit, and 18% haste with about 2.25k spell power raid buffed (some stats may be higher, or all three a bit lower depending on how you choose to stack your gear)

On live atm I'm running ~30.6% crit, 1760 mp5 out of 5sr, ~11.6% haste, 2220 spell power, and 30400 mana raid buffed (missing gear from endgame atm)- remember live doesn't have talent changes yet either (my only concern is the HPS of it all without DP)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-t...ther&n=Kalgram

Sorry for the spam and please notify me on any stupid errors about this spec/stats.

[Danner]

It's a very interesting spec!

My first reaction was that not going deep holy would kill your mana efficiency. Then I remembered that they removed Improved Holy Concentration, and then that point was kind of moot; the efficiency is ruined anyway.

As such, this spec is actulaly better for mana than deep holy.
The disc talents giving you
+15% intellect, -10% instant costs and +6% spirit and haste
is actually quite awesome for a holy priest.
Just too bad you have to waste points in PW:Shield and Absolution to get there.

If I was you, however, I'd drop some/all points in Empowered Healing. I personally find that GHeal is "big enough" as is. This is a personal preference more than anything else. For those points, you can get 2/2 Healing Prayers (great talent in 3.1!), Lightwell (questionable choice, but it might be useful in Ulduar. Here's to hoping?) and Holy Reach (also questionable; might actually be useful for PoH?) instead.

You could also put points into Blessed Resilience (you might laugh, but it now gives +1% healing per talent) or better, Focused Power (same deal, but also faster Mass Dispel). Both secondary effects suck for PVE, but the +% healing is good.

I'd run with a spec like this personally, but I would really miss the feeling of power Guardian Spirit gives me... It's not that good a spell, really, but it feels good. But, depending on the mana situation for holy priests in 3.1, I may have no choice but to go for something like this. Your specc really do get a lot of the mana bonuses from discipline.

[adalet]

Since poh/pom are gonna be the best aoe tools for a holy priest i wouldn't loose points from healing prayers and if you get the healing prayers you won't need anymore mental agy cuz the usage of renew/coh doesn't justify the points spent in that talent. Enlightment grants you 6% haste but 3/3 serendipity can grant 12% haste, enlightment + 1/3 serendipity = 10% haste doesn't justify the need to go so far into disc tree. 10% haste raid buffed is more than enough to make some "combos" with your flash heals. Also empowered renew will be a pretty powerfull tool since crits on that spell will give you the holy conc effect. I don't know yet if the points in absolution are really needed cuz i can't tell if there will be some heavy dispelling encounters. If you wanna raid heal inspiration is useless. Droping empowered healing ain't an option too, cuz holy means more healing as fast as possible with as less mana as you can thus a gimped flash heal isn't worthy.

[Danner]

I don't think my non-talented fheal healing for just below 4.5k can be considered gimped

[Kalgram]

Enlightenment-
Mybad, I hadn't just taken it for the haste... The 6% spirit Also helps a bunch in mp5, and it helps even the stats out a bit with Spirit and int, diminishing returns start to grow without it.I personally feel I should keep empowered healing due to that I dont stack spell power to a large amount, I only have about +18 sp in my gems (aside from that of granted from spirit)- and I try to have int in every socket.

I personally think that it isnt useless I often cross heal across multiple tanks with my own target myself.... so even that small % chance of a crit is meaningful to me... Plus to even move down the talent tree its the best option. so kinda not much can be done about this anyway =/

and 3/3 seren can grant 36% haste now, they nerfed it (4/8/12% each stack)... and with that it sort of opens up this option.. I see what you mean... but im looking for more overall viability.... the More haste you get the Less points in serendipity you want though however. plus stacking haste from gear gets diminishing returns after a while, tho I dont think enlightenment does. This is also dependent on how much haste the other healers have too imo. Enlightenment also perm. effects your gheal and GCD- serendipity does not sadly.

Empowered renew-
Now on the empowered renew topic... It can proc holy conc. But I'm unsure About all of this atm. I always keep a renew on all tanks, But on the ptr it only seemed like the instant heal at the end only when there was difficient in the players health. Also It procs for a % of the total amount healed- is that of the max for the spell to heal, or just of a % that the targets health was healed for by it? renew doesnt heal if target's at 100%

Do I need healing prayers?
I also use the 90 int greatness card, so I have 37650 mana (As Holy) for replenishment over 4.5 mins i can get upwards of 17.25k mana. And since Ill only lose and average of 1200 mana per 3 casts, about as many as I'll ever get off before the raid is topped. I doubt it's a huge loss. However, What else can I drop besides Sol? and SOL saves more mana than healing prayers also. The spec also currently has 10% off POM which is a reasonable amount imo... (I'll also probably move the 2 points from absolution to PWS- seems to be a better choice.)

feed back of any type would be appreciated =D

[adalet]

Enlightenment-
Mybad, I hadn't just taken it for the haste... The 6% spirit Also helps a bunch in mp5, and it helps even the stats out a bit with Spirit and int, diminishing returns start to grow without it.

Things will change a bit and you will need to find a balance between int and spirit. The +6% spirit bonus from enlightenment would be a valuable argument but is it that worthy ?

and 3/3 seren can grant 36% haste now, they nerfed it (4/8/12% each stack)... and with that it sort of opens up this option.. I see what you mean... but im looking for more overall viability.... the More haste you get the Less points in serendipity you want though however.

Call me crazy, but with the new serendipity i would dump my haste to zero and get as much crit as i can. I see things like FH FH FH <oh shit!> GH. Plus with an imp PW:S can be amasing. That if you wanna be a crosshealer.

Empowered renew-

Wich acts like a riptide.

Do I need healing prayers?

Yes you do or no you don't, if you wanna be a versatile healer. And yeah cuz healing prayers + holy reach can make you a very good aoe healer.

[Kalgram]

Ok thanks, aight Ill move absolution into IPWS, and Desperate prayer into 1/2 holy reach.

The thing is With the added 6% spirit I'm still at 1398 int, 1048 spi unbuffed- and I'd lose about 60 spi if I removed it creating a larger gap. I realize I can regem some int into to spirit... But I try and have it up for replenishment/cd's. If I dropped the 3 points in enlightenment I can do 3/3 serendipity 1/2 hp, or 2/2 hp 1/3 empowered renew (I feel only one point for the clear cast chance),
or 3/3 serendipity and 1/3 empowered renew etc. just whats best?

Now that I know Empowered renew works like riptide its A lot more promising.

Call me crazy, but with the new serendipity i would dump my haste to zero and get as much crit as i can. I see things like FH FH FH <oh shit!> GH. Plus with an imp PW:S can be amasing. That if you wanna be a crosshealer.

Yes I see your point, but curious on your Opinion on this- I feel you shouldnt let your gheal get below your flash cast since it may be an oh shit but it takes time to build up at times. and you should be able to heal the dmg as you would without a very fast gheal. The crit makes sense, but its too much of a gimp on all your other spells. One issue I have is I catch damage faster then a few other healers, but I only have about 9% haste atm while some of the others are over 16% and I'm constantly finding myself over healing because they topped the target before I ever could on live atm. I only see serendipity as an aid to your hps so you can pump the next cast after it out faster. Plus it increases ur HC uptime.

Stacking the haste still puts me behind a bit... but its .3 secs from my flash at full stacks and my Average gheal will still be 2.05 secs (under 2 with raidbuffs).

sorry if I'm being stubborn just though If all your saying is true, and it all does have a point behind it, I may aswell go deep holy (but that's what I was trying to stay away from For mp5)

A couple possible specs?
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9658

seems best But i'd lost 1650 mana (108 int), which also turns to 1000 mana loss form replenishment every 4.5 mins, +100 mana per shadowfiend tick lost... not to mention the 60 spirit loss... this worth it in your eyes?
Personally I'd rather take what I had before. maybe I can pull one point from Enlightenment into empowered renew:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9658
(you know this is accually probably better cuz of how much I use renew I can drop another .5% crit for 2% haste): but imo this spec is only viable once you get the required Gear.

[mclovvin]

Why is it I can never see the mmo builds when they are linked? it loads skeleton and numbers but i cant see the spells in boxes

[adalet]

The thing is With the added 6% spirit I'm still at 1398 int, 1048 spi unbuffed- and I'd lose about 60 spi if I removed it creating a larger gap.

Do not remove it now, do it when PTR comes live and spirit will be class buff. You will get (if i'm not mistakening) 80 spirit thus covering the gap.

I realize I can regem some int into to spirit... But I try and have it up for replenishment/cd's. If I dropped the 3 points in enlightenment I can do 3/3 serendipity 1/2 hp, or 2/2 hp 1/3 empowered renew (I feel only one point for the clear cast chance),
or 3/3 serendipity and 1/3 empowered renew etc. just whats best?

I think, 3/3 serendipity and 1/2 hp it might work.

Yes I see your point, but curious on your Opinion on this- I feel you shouldnt let your gheal get below your flash cast since it may be an oh shit but it takes time to build up at times. and you should be able to heal the dmg as you would without a very fast gheal. The crit makes sense, but its too much of a gimp on all your other spells. One issue I have is I catch damage faster then a few other healers, but I only have about 9% haste atm while some of the others are over 16% and I'm constantly finding myself over healing because they topped the target before I ever could on live atm. I only see serendipity as an aid to your hps so you can pump the next cast after it out faster. Plus it increases ur HC uptime.

With the new changes holy got, i no longer see the point of going for more than 10% haste raid buffed and i strongly believe that. As for that "sequence" i put it here, it was more like an option, meaning serendipity can give you now a bit more of imagination. And yes i would go a bit far into perspective and make a supposition here. How would things turn in if we would be able to some time predict dmg spikes? My opinion would be that thing would work really great.

sorry if I'm being stubborn just though If all your saying is true, and it all does have a point behind it, I may aswell go deep holy (but that's what I was trying to stay away from For mp5)

I'm not telling you to go deep holy Just don't go that deep into disc.

What about this one ?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9658

[Edit]: with the new dual speccs coming you can always try deep holy or deep disc. At some point i saw the things like this, either you get a good mana pool and stop worry too much about regen or do it vice-versa. Now i wouldn't be so stageworthy about mana regen. :P 4.5 min of replesh is a bit far away of the table and heck why not cover that with a mana pot. :P

Ok, [edit 2] Looking again at your stats, i'd say 1200 spi and 1200 int will be a great a number (but that's an opinion wich doesn't need to be taken as a strong advice).

[Kalgram]

Ya I was looking at that, didnt put it in though cuz I forgot to say earlier that 60 spirit was Unbuffed.... Going from fell intelligence and 4% spi from enlightenment i'd still lose 40 with 0/3 enlightenment and DS. the loss is 51 if I go from DS Atm to 0 enlightenment with DS... and thatll put me at over a 400 difference between my spirit and int. This is why choosing the spec is so hard for me.

I've been more focused on every else because 85% of the fight is between those charged casts... and if im .4 seconds behind what I could be? The damage will probably be across enough players there will be someone I can top with it using 0 over heal. All the other priests only have 9% haste (so a .3 second faster 'Charged" gheal than mine), our shamman has 16%... and ill have 18-20% base haste... this is What's been on my mind.

to have my gcd casts almost 1/4 of a second faster is a huge help, with an extra 6% spirit It just seems To be best mp5, cast speed solution imo atm. But im not kicking off what your saying... I'm definitely keeping in mind what you have to say- cuz if I find I'm still being topped off by other healers, Ill choose one of the awesome specs you've layed out for me ^^ (does it sound aight? cuz really that deciding factor on serendipity is determined by the cast times of your fellow raiders imo- and I honestly think ur gheal shouldnt go below ur FH cast timer.)

I also looked at haste more since you show'd those specs that you balanced out for me... only problem is A priest cant go more then 13% haste unbuffed on GEAR without being utterly serverely gimped. After 12% everything goes downhill... the next % or 2 comes in a chunk of 2 or 3% depending on item, For big int/mp5 loss, 27 int w/ a loss of 14 mp5 with a small gain in spirit... or a big loss of crit and spirit: loss of 80 spirit, gain 23 mp5.. lose 8 int and lose over 60 crit rating-its just horrible o.o.

The main issue I have with mp5 mainly is that it WONT scale with buffs. Full mp5 gear can be powerful... But you want full mp5 gear, not to have it half and half.

Still you've been a huge help, and I dun wanna shut anyone down... if people have anything left to say I'll still be glad to hear it =D.

[Kalgram]

Aye dual specs, Reason why I've been so much on this I'm gona be a deep holy spec for when I absolutely need hps.

But I wanna get this as good as I can and sorry for being so hard on ya m8 =/ I've kinda opened up to your veiws and they make sense... Ive just been on a tunnel vision bout keeping my haste better than the others... my bad there

and Btw... with the Mp5 nerf... Ive been wanting to get my mana return as much as I can back up so I can have infinite mana again O.o, but as I said the hps worries me... but im not sure whats too much mp5, or too much haste (with the way ive been saying it put both to the max using max mp5... but that Serendipidity is the problem... tho adalet, with it being .4 secs behind... with lagg and all isnt that still only like .2 secs? there is a cut off point imo when the speed just doesnt matter anymore, based on inc. damage.

Now if a bit inc. dmg can be registered at less then 1.5 secs then I can see 3/3 serendipity...


Hopefully ive been a bit easier.. mybad m8.

[Kalgram]

I think, 3/3 serendipity and 1/2 hp it might work.

What about this one ?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9658

Ya its an interesting spec, though I think we'd need COH =P, so 1/2 healing prayer would still be nice.

How useful is this talent though?, and people reading if you have an Idea please reply =D

[adalet]

Ok, the spirit loss, if my calculations are right (based on your stats) with enlightenment you should get 278 sp more, w/o that you should be near 262. Imho, is not such a big loss and since the spirit nerf will get near unnoticed. That 400 diff should be great if you are looking more to replenish. This balance can't be necessarly built by talents if we are talking about a hybrid specc, imho. It really depends on what you need from both speccs, on what gives you more advantages, and if i had to base my judgements on increasing stats and try balance them alltogether i would go for the harder stats to aquire, that is why in my opinion serendipity in it's new looks comes in more "delicious".

About the fastest heal thingy, some priests decided they better get haste to be more faster than the rest, others decided it could be crit. Nothing bad so far, but when you know you can cross heal/aoe heal let's say 1 specifically group you should worry more on the needs of that group. Such a specc should be great for a backup healer, the healer that comes in handy in absolutely all situations. And hell if we are to talk about shammies, who on earth playing this game can think they can be outhealed that easy ?^^ I sence you are finding it a bit hard to find your use/place in a raid (don't take it as the bad thingy), it's just a thing i personally deduced, no harm intended.

All in all, my english sux, you may get another point of view of what i told but it was no harm intended, i'm not trying to be the all knowing person. ;D The reason i carried this out is cuz i sometimes like to look at/try hybrid speccs, but i'm beeing kept away from cuz i find it more awsome to make "abuse" of the deep disc specc, that's the only thing dragging me out of hybrid speccs bussines. :P

With all this said, enough naging, cheers and thx for listening !