Since when do druids use 100% lifebloom?

[iLive]

1.) yea i always use all hots on tanks, lifebloom alone is too weak to use as the only move for a tank, but they are giving it a 100% increase in mana cost, so you wont be able to focus a 3 stack on any target no matter what unless you wanna go oom. AND when you say expensive lifebloom mana does not = direct healing, do you honestly believe rejuv and regrowth hots will be as effective as lifebloom stack? rejuv is basically a 3 sec slower version of 3 stack lifebloom, we can use that but if you have healers in a raid that can heal faster than a rejuv tick, thats sad. So if our last hot is rejuv, all we can od is direct heal now, and WG but thats for aoe healing, too short for 1 tank being dmged healing.

2.) Healing for druids atm is too easy? We have to keep 3 hots, regrowth lifebloom and rejuv on tanks, use WG at right times so it hits 5 ppl and we dont waste the move, decide when to use nourish over a hot in a quick healing situation, plus our direct heals already have to be 2 times faster than any other healers because they are weaker, PLUS while we do this, have to choose right times when we have to stop healing to let our mp5 go back up, or else we have to use innervate. While what do shamans and holy paladins do? take a guess....they spam 1 move and come back 2 min later to see whats going on. And i did put it dramatically that we will be forced to use nourish-regrowth, but i didnt mean to say those would be the only 2 spells we have, but rejuv and regrowth hots are no where as effective as lifebloom is. And even tho lifebloom is very effective, its only 30% of our healing, alone with wg and regrowth,.....so why nerf us? And lifebloom being expensive will make it barely usable, it will cost so much to keep up there will be no good situation than to just use 1 and wait till it fades off to get the mana back.

1. If you don't want to run OOM then let it bloom (if you have bad gear), but remember that using Lifebloom now and refreshing at 1 sec left will give you all the mana back (with only selfbuff), so with better gear and Blizzard thinking about making it 75% more expensive instead, I think you can survive it actually.

2. I said "easy" and not "too easy". IMO it is easy to do the rotation you explain, and with difficulty i mean mana regeneration. I stack SP rather than spirit, and at some raid boss I can heal more than needed (casting Rejuvenation on all players) and still have enough mana. That is easy. And yes Paladins and Shamans may be close to 1-button healing, but I am glad I didnt roll a Shaman or Paladin. Give me a variety of healing spells, and we have a Druid or Priest.

How much fun was being a unique druid that had no place in raids with guilds that could down SWP? Making LB more expensive won't make it less used, we CAN'T afford not using it, our raw healing power is already on the bottom of all the healing classes , if you will use LB less, your guild might as well take a boomkin or feral for combat res and innervate, or another pallie for healing.

We are more unique now than ever before! We got a great arsenal of healing spells, and by still having HoTs as center, like Holy Priests too will be with AoE as center. If Lifebloom becomes too expensive to add into your rotation, Blizzard will change it to 75% increase in stead, but I think that with buffs etc. even 100% increase will be decent. We just have to see, try and feel.

[ReadyWhip]

We are more unique now than ever before! We got a great arsenal of healing spells, and by still having HoTs as center, like Holy Priests too will be with AoE as center. If Lifebloom becomes too expensive to add into your rotation, Blizzard will change it to 75% increase in stead, but I think that with buffs etc. even 100% increase will be decent. We just have to see, try and feel.

It feels like you are deluding yourself to think this is a great change. Druids are NOT becoming more unique. Resto Druid = HoT healing. Nerf HoTs, buff direct heals and we are LESS like the other healers? It's not like we gain any new spells/talents with this patch that enhance HoTs or make us want to use them more.

And I'm not really cool with the "We'll nerf the crap out of you now, and then re-adjust it later" attitude Blizzard seems to enjoy taking.

[iLive]

It feels like you are deluding yourself to think this is a great change. Druids are NOT becoming more unique. Resto Druid = HoT healing. Nerf HoTs, buff direct heals and we are LESS like the other healers? It's not like we gain any new spells/talents with this patch that enhance HoTs or make us want to use them more.

As I have already mentioned:

When something is unique, it is because it's special and different, and making Lifebloom more expensive will make it less used, and when something is less used to gain its benefits most, it is more unique. Like Wild Growth is also more unique now compared to before CD.

Being unique is not that someone wants you more or less, but that in this situation that you feel that every spells has a meaning and time to use it right, and not just one spamming 1-button. What is speciel about 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 2 1, nothing! The thing that is special, is the class that required brain to think about when, how, who, why etc. to be a good class. And just because they make 25% critt on Nourish doesn't mean they want you to be a direct healer. I use Nourish alot in raid members, and knowing I can heal more with it now, makes me glad.

[Volkogluk]

We are more unique now than ever before! We got a great arsenal of healing spells, and by still having HoTs as center, like Holy Priests too will be with AoE as center. If Lifebloom becomes too expensive to add into your rotation, Blizzard will change it to 75% increase in stead, but I think that with buffs etc. even 100% increase will be decent. We just have to see, try and feel.

You seem to miss the point... Do not take ONE nerf and say " hey, its ok, we wil manage. " If that one nerf was the only one, hell , you would have been right. But lets summ it all up, shall we?
1) We used to have a great synergy going in regrowth. It was almost a guaranteed crit, therefore it procced natures grace AND seed almost reliably. Making next regrowth + seed even faster. That synergy got broken on all lvls. Natures grace no longer gives you a long lasting baff making your next spell faster - it gives you 20% haste for the ( woopy -ty - doo !) next 3 seconds. Since are are not spell spammers, this is crap. Even more so once the mana regen hits and we are forced to use even less spells. Which brings me to next point.
2) Spirit regen nerf. Apparently the current content being easy is all healers fault. Not all healers, at that. Just druid's and priest's. So our mana regen gets nerfed . yay. but wait, at least we still have inervate, right? wrong. While Intensify got buffed a bit to make in five sec rule regen aobut the same, innervate wasn't touched. making it do half what it does now. Nice. ( meanwhile at least priests got their shadowfiend buffed. we got nada. zilch. nichevo. nothing. )
3) The point of this topic. Lifebloom. The bread and butter of resto druids, so to speak. Our only truly unique heal. Wil now cost double the mana. Good times.

But hey, all is not bleak, not? We are still unique, right? And at least we got some buffs to shoe for it. Like the increase of 25% for nourish to crit ! ( and who cares that it basicly is a cheap copy of flash heal, only weaker and heals for less? AND it came at a cost of losing 25% regrowth crit. + we can't really allow ourselves to spam it, sicne we will be OOM before you can say " WTF, i am sure i had a full mana bar just now?! "
Oh, and seed got buffed. now its not effective heal based, its 30% of your heal crit, doesn't matter how much was overhealing. Now we only need to find a spell to proc it with while not being reduced to nourish spam like other direct heal classes...
Enough reasons to rejoice, not?
EDIT:
Dunno about you, ILIVE, but I really doubt that any druid worth his leaves was thinking till now that we are jsut one button spammers and all our spells were the same. I really didn't think THAT was our problem, you know?
P.s.: If I forgot anything in my summary, feel free to add.

[iLive]

1. Not everyone are using Regrowthx2, and as you mention with the guarantied critt on Regrowth, dont you think Living Seed would be a tad OP compared to before? And don't you think Blizzard wants to make your 80 spell (Nourish) more viable for healing? I am using Regrowth for HoT on my tank, and never really on anything else, except when the damage take on a target is higher than what Nourish can heal, and I know the target will need the HoT.

2. I see the mana regeneration nerf can be a problem and with Innervate, but I don't think it will be such a great problem with new gear and correct sockets.

3. Yeah, but the nerf is not so you never use it or can't use it, but that you stop rolling it on 3 tanks. Lifebloom are one of the games strongest healing spells, because it's a HoT and you can keep it on up to 4 targets! 3 with all the other HoTs included. Don't you see the problem and the OP here and that your mana is controlable with it? I am still having blues gear with only SP gems, and I can roll full hot on 3 tanks and add a Nourisj sometimes. Don't you think that there should be a nerf to that? That is our problem YOU KNOW? And don't say: " But Shamans and Paladins...." If you do, then go and reroll Shaman or Paladin.

[Volkogluk]

1. Not everyone are using Regrowthx2,

That was the beutifull thing about natures grace. You didn't HAVE TO use regrowth x2 to enjoy it. While now its use it or lose it.

Blizzard wants to make your 80 spell (Nourish) more viable for healing?
than what Nourish can heal
add a Nourisj sometimes.
Don't you think that there should be a nerf to that? That is our problem YOU KNOW? And don't say: " But Shamans and Paladins...." If you do, then go and reroll Shaman or Paladin.

It sure looks like some one here is already on his way to become a shammie or palladin w/o any rerolling.
Not everybodsy want to be shammies or pallies in druids guise. Thats what most of the posts here WERE about.

2. I see the mana regeneration nerf can be a problem and with Innervate, but I don't think it will be such a great problem with new gear and correct sockets.

In other words we need a whole new tier of gear just to get back to what we are today. Does that make sense to you? What wil happen with next content then? Think.

3. Yeah, but the nerf is not so you never use it or can't use it, but that you stop rolling it on 3 tanks. Lifebloom are one of the games strongest healing spells, because it's a HoT and you can keep it on up to 4 targets! 3 with all the other HoTs included. Don't you see the problem and the OP here and that your mana is controlable with it? I am still having blues gear with only SP gems, and I can roll full hot on 3 tanks and add a Nourisj sometimes. Don't you think that there should be a nerf to that?

And why should there be a nerf just cause we can roll LB on 3 pple atm?( + are there THAT many fights with 3 tanks? And even if ALL the fights had 3 tanks , Does doubling the cost harms only this strategy? No. It hurms you even when you are roling ONE LB. In other words, if your leg slightly hurts - amputate it plz. It won't hurt any more, i guarantee it. )
Btw, for some reason it didn't bother no1 in TBC, nor in beginning of WoTLK. But the moment they begun LOOKING where to nerf the healing, ( to make next content harder... great logic...) guess what. bb LB as we knew it. After all, if you want to kick a person, why kick in the side if you can kick in the groin? Where it will really hurt...
EDIT: A question. If that "nerf all so we can make new content " logic is so sound, can any1 tell me what nerfs came together with SWP? Karazhan? Serpentshine? Black temple? Or did they actually manage to make new, interesting, HARD content without nerfing the crp out of classes first? ( gasp)

[ReadyWhip]

As I have already mentioned:

When something is unique, it is because it's special and different, and making Lifebloom more expensive will make it less used, and when something is less used to gain its benefits most, it is more unique. Like Wild Growth is also more unique now compared to before CD.

Being unique is not that someone wants you more or less, but that in this situation that you feel that every spells has a meaning and time to use it right, and not just one spamming 1-button. What is speciel about 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 2 1, nothing! The thing that is special, is the class that required brain to think about when, how, who, why etc. to be a good class. And just because they make 25% critt on Nourish doesn't mean they want you to be a direct healer. I use Nourish alot in raid members, and knowing I can heal more with it now, makes me glad.

No....just no. If "1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 1 1 2 1" was your rotation, you just fail (not saying YOU specifically...just in general). I think our differences lie in our definition of "unique." I am using uniqueness in comparing resto druids to the other 3 healing classes. For the most part, druids are instant cast HoTs, while the other 3 are mostly casted heals, right? So when Blizzard nerfs HoTs, and buffs casted heals, does that not make resto druids more like the other 3 classes? If resto druids are more like other classes, don't we LOSE uniqueness?

But yeah, I guess you are right if you believe all resto druids are using 2 spells. Killing one of those spells would force them to use others...but I do not think most resto druids are like that in reality (at least good ones).

[Magthalion]

I've been reading up alot, and I've been testing the new LB on the test realms with effective healing in Ulduar, personally i don't like to roll LB on more than 2 maybe 3 targets, because preemptive healing on tanks by keeping all the hots on them, and then using a combination of wild growth, rejuvenation and nourish on raid members taking AE damage seems more effective to me.

As for my style of healing not all druids would agree, especially those that got very used to the constant LB rolling in BC, and now in WOTLK, a druid in my guild boasting about topping meters right left and center, keeping lb up on 6-7 targets at a time healing through a 10 minute encounter because he has too much regen and LB is too cheap.

I like what blizzard is doing with LB at the moment, these changes will fit perfectly into my style of healing, rolling LB on 2-3 tanks while using a combination of HoT and Direct heals to quickly heal raid members that take damage up. In my opinion, Druids aren't meant to top targets off, we buffer raid damage, and we buffer tank damage with out HoT's, and your Nourish for example, is great for countering spike damage on a raid member to prevent them from dying from a following AE hit, I don't mind letting paladins blast out a 17k Holy light on my target, as long as i'm confident that i helped in saving that target from dying.

What defines a good healer is not how high he is on the meters, what defines a good healer is his capability to prevent death in his group, and druids seem to fit that role better than shamans and paladins, by having faster heals, they may be smaller, but nourish has saved more targets than LB in most raids i have been to.

Now I'm very tired when I'm typing this so don't flame me if i repeated something or mispelled it, just wanted to throw my point of view out there.

[Syph]

I know that lifebloom (as it is on live servers) is supposed to be really good, both as a spell itself and for its health-per-mana.... but I simply never liked it much...

My excuse is that I have been resto since korean beta up to the day before the expansion. Went feral for leveling and basically never respecced up till a week ago in preparation for dualspec (aka: I've never healed since lifebloom was introduced)...

Ofcourse its partially because I'm so used to only having our "oldskool-arsenal" which consisted of HT, rejuv, regrowth, swiftmend and natures swiftness... but I've had no problems with adding nourish and wild growth to my regular-use heals...

I dont know, maybe LB is a great spell, but its not as if the alternative options are so horrific... its more like we've been given this delicious cake for a while, and now the person who gave us the cake is coming to take it away again... ofcourse we are allowed to be pissed and agitated, but dont worry, after a while we'll have hardly even a memory of what that cake tasted like and we'll be satisfied with the cheap cake from the market around the corner

[Volkogluk]

a druid in my guild boasting about topping meters right left and center, keeping lb up on 6-7 targets at a time healing through a 10 minute encounter because he has too much regen and LB is too cheap.

Bastards like him ruined it for the rest of us. >

What defines a good healer is not how high he is on the meters, what defines a good healer is his capability to prevent death in his group, and druids seem to fit that role better than shamans and paladins, by having faster heals, they may be smaller, but nourish has saved more targets than LB in most raids i have been to.

Sorry, m8, you are contradicting yourself here.. If nourish saved more targets then LB, then shammies and pallies are actually better in death prevention role, since their flash heal is more powerfull then ours...

[Magthalion]

(Sorry, m8, you are contradicting yourself here.. If nourish saved more targets then LB, then shammies and pallies are actually better in death prevention role, since their flash heal is more powerfull then ours...

Yeah wuz a bit tired but let me explain, with the buffs nourish is getting, it would mean a 25% crit increase on the spell, effectively reducing it to a 0.7second cast for me every time i crit, but not only that but it adds a living seed on the target, which is a reactive heal as you must know, healing the target for even more, so assume you do a 5,1k nourish normally, you crit for 6-7k with it, then get the reactive seed on him, the target takes damage but the living seed then blooms to heal him for more, and since Living Seed can crit, that one nourish has the possibility of healing your target for 9-11k, depending on spellpower etc.

I don't know but from my experience so far, nourish is a great addition to the healing arsenal and will only get better..
Of course the LB mana cost will hurt some druids, but it'll also make the good healers stand out of the crowd.
And of course i might just be wrong and this is a horrible move by blizzard ruining druid healing everywhere? We'll see when this goes live.

[Volkogluk]

effectively reducing it to a 0.7second cast for me every time i crit

You might want to check changes to natures grace, they are screwing restos in there too...

Yeah wuz a bit tired but let me explain, with the buffs nourish is getting, it would mean a 25% crit increase on the spell, effectively reducing it to a 0.7second cast for me every time i crit, but not only that but it adds a living seed on the target, which is a reactive heal as you must know, healing the target for even more, so assume you do a 5,1k nourish normally, you crit for 6-7k with it, then get the reactive seed on him, the target takes damage but the living seed then blooms to heal him for more, and since Living Seed can crit, that one nourish has the possibility of healing your target for 9-11k, depending on spellpower etc.

I understand you trying to make the best of this changes, but thats actually the problem.
1) It doesn't matter with the seed changes, and the crit to nourish... Cause no matter what, nourish still won't be as good as priest/ shammie/ pallie direct heals.. And why then bring a resto druid to a raid if all you need are direct heals? Other classes are infinetly better and more efficient at it.
2) Don't forget that between keeping hoTs up ( assuming you still want to do that, ofc) , and actually using nourish, you wil never be out of five second rule. Which is great, considering blizz wanted us to " learn to manage our mana better ". At least pallies get mana out of spell crits. What do we get? Innervates power halved?

[Magthalion]

Well i like seing it as more positive of a change, rather than spamming your ass off through all encounters, you have to manange your efficiency. besides blizzard will fix it if druids will become second hand healers, not getting groups and raids because the other classes can heal more efficiently..

[ReadyWhip]

besides blizzard will fix it if druids will become second hand healers, not getting groups and raids because the other classes can heal more efficiently..

After how many months? I'm really just hoping it actually gets sorted out during testing...but recent history suggests it wont.

[Volkogluk]

After how many months? I'm really just hoping it actually gets sorted out during testing...but recent history suggests it wont.

Exactly what I am afraid of. By then enough restos will go oomkin, and when blizz finally decide to do something about it, many will actually stay boomkin , instead of being bounced around like what happened to BM => SV => BM changes.

[D44N]

My answer: never.
While pvp-ing i use: Rejuv+(1/3)lifebloom and a regrowth when i get the chance but that's pretty much it.

[Grakos]

1. .....If you don't want to run OOM then let it bloom (if you have bad gear),...
2. I said "easy" and not "too easy". IMO it is easy to do the rotation you explain, and with difficulty i mean mana regeneration....

100 percent increase in mana to lifebloom will be impossible to keep up as a druid, it would be like having a holy paladin that doesnt get mana back from its crits, it would go oom in 30 sec if it tried spamming holy light, but now lifebloom cant be stacked no matter what gear you have.

Plus, yea the rotation i explained is for every druid, but compared to a shamans or paladins rotation? i mean i think we druids can agree that resto druids and holy priests take much more work than spamming 1 move and watching as others do. And losing all mana in less than a minute by just trying to keep weak heals on multiple targets is not challenging, its just aggrovating, and makes us useless healers.

[Grakos]

Thanks all for you comments, but lets go back to my original question relating to why this nerf is so wrong:

WHY NERF US? Can we all agree that all healers and the moment (including shamans and paladins) are kinda even right now? sure i hate losing to a healer with 90% the same move, but i still see druids at top, and sometimes at the bottom of healing charts, same goes for every class!

I brought paladins and shaman into this only because when someone says we druids are too dependent on 1 move and we need to use more, they are completely WRONG.

You too Ilive, can you agree with me when i say druids atm are fine? Still getting beat by other healers, and having to use more than 1 move to get to the top?

AND A SOLUTION THAT BENEFITS ALL HEALERS? = Make raids harder! i remember wiping on heroics because crowd control needed to be kept up or i would be one shot. Or how keeping all hots on a paladin still needed support because trying to aoe tank anything above 5 was suicide.

A decrease in healers effectivity (druids in this case) will lead to more classes being nerfed, but in the end will be fixed by making raids harder! so why mess with healers right now?

[Volkogluk]

Funny thing. Just now been in a guild ach run in naxx, were on spore loser. Just for the heck of it I rolled 5 x3 stacks of LBs on every 1 in the group i was supposed to watch, with 1 remaining gcd used for WG / rejuv/ glyphed Ht. After the run asked for a healing meter. Every single priest was above me. Even those with lesser gear.
Going back to the run, cheers.

[iLive]

You too Ilive, can you agree with me when i say druids atm are fine? Still getting beat by other healers, and having to use more than 1 move to get to the top?

I would say Restoration Druid is the best designed healing class ATM. We have a great variation of spells and abilities for healing, and we can improve and use them in the way we want, but still be great healers. We are not a basic healing class like Holy Priests is ATM, but better than any healing class at one point, and that is healing over time spells. So yes Druids are ATM fine, but I believe that it is the best to change Lifebloom in order to make us more balanced compared to the other healing classes.

No more discussion, have great guys.