Next patch makes Reckoning useful?

[Copain]

* Enchant Weapon - Blade Ward *New Enchant* - Permanently enchants a weapon to sometimes grant Blade Warding when striking an enemy. Blade Warding increases your parry rating by 200 and inflicts 600 to 800 damage on your next parry. Effect can stack up to 5 times and lasts 10 sec. This enchantment requires the wielder is at least level 75.


Think this will make us want to get Reckoning?

[Draco cracona]

Nope, because it happens when we parry, and thus reckoning will only affect it by increasng the amount of hits we take very slightly, so not worth it.

[Copain]

You sure Draco? I'm not in the PTR so I can't say you are wrong for sure, but it does say when Striking an enemy...

[Draco cracona]

Ah, my bad, I misread it. Assuming that only white hits proc it, it might be slightly useful, with swing speed of ~1.5s and extra white attacks on Judgement, SotR and HotR that's what, ~40 white, 10 from SotR, 10 from HotR, and ~6 from judgement. total of 66 attacks/min even in the worst case (white only), that's 11 attacks to proc it on in 10s, so a few more would be handy I guess. I guess that it will proc off all melee though, so that goes up to ~92 attacks/min and ~15 melee attacks per 10s, which will be enough to keep it up if the procrate is at least ~6.5% - I'd guess the procrate would be lower so reckoning might be decent from a mitigational standpoint, but I doubt it'll affect it much tbh.

[Mutin]

Im pretty sure that a spell like this wont have a %procrate, both rather a PPM (Proc per minute) rate.

[Rígr]

only thin recconing is good for, is if you spec pvp, and want to use SoR to work around DoT reduction from res

not sure what specs you guys are going for, but atm i'm aiming for:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9658
or
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9658

[Draco cracona]

Im pretty sure that a spell like this wont have a %procrate, both rather a PPM (Proc per minute) rate.

Well the ppm will be based on your weaponspeed I assume; thus you can calculate the procrate with your weapon and get extra attacks due to HotR,SotR,reckoning etc. which aren't counted in ppm->proc chance calculations.

[Lumidar]

Pretty sure ShoR doesn't count as a weapon attack since it doesn't trigger the seal

[Rígr]

if previous procc based item enchants are the guideline, i would think it's only going to procc off auto attacks
(not sure if that was what you where aiming for?)

[Fuegan]

Reckoning is not a very useful ability in combination with seal of veng/corr, hitting a second time does nothing with it. This new enchant isn't nearly good enough to make reckoning suddenly worth it if ya use a fast weapon.

Btw Reckoning DOES proc seals, which is why i use it in conjunction with broken promise and seal of righteousness.

PROOF:

[Piscesthepally]

I played with reckoning for about 2 hours the other night on ptr, in a wsg. I'll tell you this, it definitly does proc seals, and when you get the reckoning proc, it is VERY cool to demolish someone with super burst. Really though, the RNG is to.. RNG, I found that usually when I did get it to proc, I would end up getting stunned or kited, cc'd etc. I was just never getting to use more than one MAYBE 2 of the charges, I would only even begin to consider reckoning if the proc lasted longer than 8 seconds, or if the proc rate was higher than 10 percent. Everyone should give it a whirl on the PTR if you get a chance, it provides some amusement.

[Fuegan]

About my post, it is complete pve based. I just don't pvp on my paladin period. Although with some of the changes, silence, ect, i might try it a little, or be able to kill casters easier...

[Piscesthepally]

Reckoning Build

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9658

- build I used whilst testing it out.

[Fuegan]

I don't think reckoning is worth more than divine storm, since its an extra attack + heal. Ret reckoning builds basicly died when they revamped it and stopped it from stacking.

[Lumidar]

yes it does proc seals but the problem is tanks use SoV/SoCorr and when that seal hits all it does is add an extra stack of the dot (or if the dot is already at 5 stacks it does light damage like 3-5dmg and refreshes the DoT.) therefore you technically only get bonus white damage from reckoning swings.

reckoning would only be worth using with Seal of Righteousness but the sustainable damage from Sov/SoCorr outweighs that of SoR.

[Draco cracona]

yes it does proc seals but the problem is tanks use SoV/SoCorr and when that seal hits all it does is add an extra stack of the dot (or if the dot is already at 5 stacks it does light damage like 3-5dmg and refreshes the DoT.) therefore you technically only get bonus white damage from reckoning swings.

reckoning would only be worth using with Seal of Righteousness but the sustainable damage from Sov/SoCorr outweighs that of SoR.

The OP was referring to reckoning for avoidance with the new enchant; more melee attacks mean more chances to proc, meaning more avoidance. The threat arguments for it are completely moot, it's well known to be useless for single target threat and possibly mildly useful for AoE SoV application, although there's better choices for threat. We'll have to wait until the ench hits the PTR to find out if it's worthwhile for avoidance, if this ench even makes it to live - it could actualy be a decent talent for the first time since they fixed reckoning bombs.

As for Feugen, I severely doubt that you're gaining TPS compared to spending the points elsewhere and using SoV, this is established knowledge and if you're arguing against it you should show your DPS breakdown both with SoR and with SoV for similar/the same fights.

[Bluerelic]

This has high potential if the proc chance for the new enchant is something decent, currently with enchants like mongoose and beserker, the PPM are set at a base number, and that number is based off ~1.87 speed weapon (I believe). A faster weapon has a lower % chance of proc'ing per swing, but should in theory still obtain the same number of PPM. Instant cast attacks, such as HotR have a % to proc based on your weapon speed, these same mechanics can be applied to reckoning "free swings" they each have an equal % chance to proc an enchant or CoH effect with a set PPM. to maximize this you would want ~2.5 speed weapon, so that in a raid setting with haste effects you would reduce your swing speed to 2.0 or slightly less. meaning you would obtain the maximum number of swings out of your reckoning charges and you'll have a higher % chance due to the slow speed of your weapon...same can be said for HotR, of course.

[Draco cracona]

Aye, still unsure if it'll even make it to live though.... 1000 parry rat basically breaks DR to the extent that more parry is worthless - 20% pre-DR assuming a full stack, 4% pre-DR per proc.

[Fuegan]

This has high potential if the proc chance for the new enchant is something decent, currently with enchants like mongoose and beserker, the PPM are set at a base number, and that number is based off ~1.87 speed weapon (I believe). A faster weapon has a lower % chance of proc'ing per swing, but should in theory still obtain the same number of PPM. Instant cast attacks, such as HotR have a % to proc based on your weapon speed, these same mechanics can be applied to reckoning "free swings" they each have an equal % chance to proc an enchant or CoH effect with a set PPM. to maximize this you would want ~2.5 speed weapon, so that in a raid setting with haste effects you would reduce your swing speed to 2.0 or slightly less. meaning you would obtain the maximum number of swings out of your reckoning charges and you'll have a higher % chance due to the slow speed of your weapon...same can be said for HotR, of course.

I have but 2 words for this, that you probably already know.

Broken
Promise

[Astray]

To make Reckoning something "useful" which means "worth spending points" there are 3 little things needed.

First:
Make Righteous Fury increase white damage threat
Second:
Make Reckoning a 2 point talent
Third:
Increase the "hitting on 5 stacks" damage of our primary tanking seal, because sometimes having another 10 Holy damage is just not enough.