FR on Heroic 3D

[Devia]

Hi all, I am looking for some input. My guild has gotten the second drake down but that's the extent of our attempts. Usually it's b/c during that time the Sarth tank dies(druid tank with 56k health). We never have paladin healers, and until last week I have been expected as a disc priest to be able to solo heal the tank...last week we had me and a holy priest and once we figured out our positioning so one of us could stand still during each flame wave it was working pretty well.

This week we will have at least one(maybe two) very good holy paladins. However, our tank has now decided that it is better to wear level 70 FR gear: http://www.wowhead.com/?items=4.2&fi...26;crs=1;crv=0 rather than his normal ilevel 213 items. Many of us are trying to convince him not to wear it but he won't listen to us because we have never killed Sarth 3D whereas the person he got the FR idea from has.

I would really like to hear opinions from people who HAVE done 3D(please link your armory) and what class and what gear your Sarth tank wears. If you can tell me that the FR actually is a good idea then great! Maybe it will work. I am just worried that the melee swings are going to be hitting him too hard now, and he is losing 16k health(and all those other tanking stats) by wearing the FR gear.

[Doctar]

Well the armory is currently down but when it comes up you can see me most likely in PVP and disc specced for the weekend.
Toon: Doctar
Server: Lightning's Blade


As far as your tank goes I would strongly recommend against FR, when we killed her in both Heroic and 10man 3d it would have been very difficult using FR.

We have used both a Druid and a DK to kill Sarth the FR would be nice for the breaths but that is what CDs are for, each of the extra dmg breaths needs to be countered by a cooldown. Bearwall, PS, Guardian Spirit etc, it is really nice to have a DK tank it as they will have a CD up for just about every big dmg breath, although if your bear tank can get enough HP which it looks like yours can he should be more than fine. Giving up the 16k life for 70 FR is definitely not what I would recommend. It sounds like you need to work on timing your CDs with the breaths. Throwing up a disc priest shield on a fully topped off tank right before the breath hits also should get you through them, just make sure your tank is also dancing with twilight torment, that cost us an extra few attempts for sure.

[Florentzia]

If you talking bout 25 man Sartharion it's easy without FrR
10 man is doable also without, but with the player limit it's not so easy but our Feral tank in 10 man don't wear FrR
For armory look signature

[CSJenova]

He's actually talking about FR though, like the illidan flame tank set.

I apologize that I can't contribute more as my guild is still learning the 10 man encounter, but wanted to clear that up in case there was confusion.

[Florentzia]

Lawl lvl 70 FR (have overread it xD), no way. I can work but its not easier than the normal fight in normal outfit.

[Surfd]

just make sure your tank is also dancing with twilight torment, that cost us an extra few attempts for sure.

You cant Twilight Torment dance any more, havent been able to for at least a month now.

[RoboStac]

Using level 70 FR's probably a mistake, but FR can certainly be useful. I'll admit I've not done 25 man yet, but have successfully tanked 10 man with FR gear. My tank set (buffed) has 350 FR, and 50.5k hp. This means I've traded about 10% HP, for a minimum of a 30% (will usually be 40%, can also be 50%) reduction in the breath value. This means instead of having 42k (your 56k druid) hp and trying to survive a 54k breath, I have 38k hp and have to survive a 44k breath. This makes it a lot easier if your raid is short of cooldowns, as smaller cooldowns will let you survive. In 10 man it means I can survive a full breath with no cooldowns used at all, as the maximum breaths are lower.

The fr I use is -
130 - paladin aura
60 - leatherworker bracer enchant
20 - cloak enchant
30 - head enchant
50 - lesser flask of resistance
16 - flame patch on gloves / chest ( 8 each)
44 - green gloves of fire protection (could use the level 70 ones here for a loss of 4 fr, some stamina and armor).

This means I'm only swapping one piece of armor out, and a few enchants. I lose a small amount of armor swapping to the green, so I take a tiny amount more melee damage, but hugely reduce the fire damage taken.

[Barbie]

Sarth 3D heroic is a top-damage/-coordination fight:
kill the first drake near 45 sec and the second one before you run out of cooldowns to help the Sarth tank survive flamebreathes (bear will survive one breath blowing his own cooldowns). After third drake's add spawns there's probably no HP gear and no FR gear in the game to survive a single flamebreath without any cooldowns as long as the second drake is alive in heroic, that's what the fight is about.

...expect to kill Sarth 3D heroic after nearly 100 wipes or so (that's after everyone having adequate gear, reading some guides and watching some fights on youtube etc.)

[Devia]

...expect to kill Sarth 3D heroic after nearly 100 wipes or so (that's after everyone having adequate gear, reading some guides and watching some fights on youtube etc.)

This is the biggest thing. Our raid leader is not willing to have us put in more than 1 or 2 hours tops into attempts each night, and we only raid 2 nights a week. I'd say we have a total of 8 hours of attempts put into this, and that's over the course of 1+ months...and each time we have different people so no one really learns it well enough. I also don't think anyone except the few core raiders are putting in any effort on learning the fight on their own. Our dps seems to be a problem too from what everyone here has said. Looks like we have more things to work on than just the main tank gear. :P

Thanks for all the input, it's much appreciated.

[brokenmirror]

DO NOT WEAR FIRE RESIST

The only resist gear anyone should be wearing is the druid tank and that's if he's wearing the frost resist gear due to it's high amount of stamina.

Wearing anything that will nerf your overall dps is a bad idea since you need to burn the first drake down before the 2nd drake lands.

If you could give a more detailed view of where your raid is wiping we could assist you better.

[Devia]

DO NOT WEAR FIRE RESIST

The only resist gear anyone should be wearing is the druid tank and that's if he's wearing the frost resist gear due to it's high amount of stamina.

Wearing anything that will nerf your overall dps is a bad idea since you need to burn the first drake down before the 2nd drake lands.

If you could give a more detailed view of where your raid is wiping we could assist you better.

The only person that wants to wear FR gear is the druid tank so there's no dps nerf issue. I think our raid is mostly failing on the dps race but the reason the tank wants to wear FR gear is b/c he sometimes dies when the third drake comes down. Like I stated earlier, we just haven't had the ideal healers on the tank(me being disc, and then a holy priest) and our last couple attempts the other priest and I figured out a better positioning and the tank wasn't dying. Tonight we will have an excellent holy paladin which would work better than a holy priest so we should be fine on healing...unless the tank is taking too much melee damage due to wearing level 70 FR gear. >.<

[Sunshine]

Tonight we will have an excellent holy paladin which would work better than a holy priest so we should be fine on healing...unless the tank is taking too much melee damage due to wearing level 70 FR gear. >.<

Melee damage isn't an issue on Sarth 3D until after all three drakes are dead. The primary concern of the tank is to mitigate the huge (up to 75k) fire damage coming in. A tank with ~55k hp is likely to have just over 40k hp after the aura from the drake (-25% stam). Therefore, you need cooldowns totaling almost 50% damage reduction.

With 335 FR, you're guaranteed to have 30% resist on all fire damage. This means that a single cooldown needs to be applied. Otherwise, in many cases, 2 cooldowns need to be applied at once (e.g., barkskin + HoS).

When I'm tanking Sarth 3D (both 10 and 25), I have a set with ~51k hp and 340 FR (+130 aura, +25 from helm enchant, +20 to cape, +60 to bracers, +50 flask, and +55 from lvl 70 badge FR pants). Our original attempts had me at much higher hp with no FR, and replacing some hp for FR was *definitely* a benefit to us.

Normally in our attempts, I have a holy paladin + druid healing me. The druid is especially helpful for when healers have to move for waves. The holy paladin and I take care of all of the breath cooldowns ourselves: 1 - barkskin, 2 - Hand of Sac, 3+4 - Survival Instincts (long enough to last for 2 in almost all cases), 5 - barkskin, 6 - divine guardian... It doesn't usually get even that far, but if necessary, I could follow by asking other paladins for HoS, etc.

After each drake dies, Sarth deals significantly more melee damage. After all 3 drakes are dead, if you're seriously concerned about melee damage (~10k melee hits on a ~50k tank), have the drake tank take over on Sarth (the breaths no longer hit for much at all, so there is no danger). In our attempts, this wasn't even necessary, and the only reason we considered it was for threat (full stam gear -> lack of hit/ap/other threat stats).

[Florentzia]

In 10 man if your dps is good you need 2 or 3 CDs, in 25 man it's almost the same mostly we use 2 CDs

[Daedelus]

Our druid tank actually uses the Frost resistance set for maximum HP.
The whole encounter is basically a DPS race so that you don't run out of mitigation cooldowns while the second drake is up.
We have only done it twice - once last week and once this week. First week we had 3 Holy priests, this week we had 1 Holy Priest and 2 paladins on the MT. Three cooldowns plus the druid's Barkskin is enough as long as you can kill the drakes fast enough, and that's a combination of good dps, people avoiding fire walls and void zones and people not killing themselves from the debuff the name of which I can't remember.

[brokenmirror]

You don't need a holy pally or any pally for 3 drake sarth.

I would suggest putting a dk on sarth, and a disc priest healing him since you both have abilities to help survive the flame breath.

When we did it tonight, we had a disc priest healing the burst damage, a druid keeping full hots on him (after 2nd drake landed) and myself keeping earth shield/riptide on him.

Your main issue may not be just your dps. Are people dying because they didn't get healed? Also ,if you don't have a resto shaman, you may want to get one for when the third drake comes down since that is the only thing I have seen in this content where resto shaman shine.

[Grindfreak]

We cheated and used a voidwalker to tank Sarth on our first 3D kill ;D

[brokenmirror]

We cheated and used a voidwalker to tank Sarth on our first 3D kill ;D

Sadly that's what we did too lol. Got it to around 86k hp.

[Grindfreak]

Forgot to mention that we did it on 25 man.

[brokenmirror]

Forgot to mention that we did it on 25 man.

We used it for 25 man first, and used it on 10 man 3 days later :P

[solaste]

The two most common ways to do this is A)have a druid tank with a massive hp pool, but you have to have the raid ready to blow cool downs on him like hand of sacrifice, pain supression, ect. We tried this and our druid tank kept dying so we went with B) a deathknight tank. They have enough cool downs that they can rotate to mitigate the fire damage and you only need a couple healers on him. Our tank uses a certain spec just for sartharion that is made to survive his massive breaths, but it's a generate low threat which isn't an issue since he'll have enough threat built up when the three drakes are dead.

As for fire resist, an aura or totem will do. Our tank uses a resist flask for good measure. He can pretty much rotate his cd's indefinitely.

One way you can measure your progress is that tenebron should be very close to dead (15%) by the time shadron lands. We typically blow everything, bloodlust, trinkets, class abilities to burn tenebron as fast as we can. We kill him, clean up the whelps and burn shadron. Once shadron is dead, all dps and a healer go into the portal and kill the acolytes. You do not need a proper tank for this. Kill them, come out, kill vesperon, go back in the portal and kill the acolyte. Then you're pretty much home free. Just be sure you have someone calling out where fire walls are comin from when people are in the twilight. Other than that it's a a fight where everyone has to be very aware of whats going on.

edit: my apologies for how sloppy this sounds, but I am very tired right now.