a question for holy pallys

[Peladin]

ok so... I have been prot most of the time I have been a pally but now every pally and there mother has seemed to roll prot and I have so many tanking friends and almost no healing friends that the choice is pretty clear I should go holy. Now I'm not new to healing as a pally but I'm used to tbc healing where the fol spam was key with hl in those oh shit moments. I have been looking at forums lately and seeing that alot of pallys can do a hl spam for quite a while... I'm geared in 10 man gear full epics but I seem to have problems lasting very long with a hl spam... even when I pace myself I tend to oom quickly.

I was wondering if I should be using divine plea every cd even w/ the 50% healing penalty or if I should be gearing more tward mp5 gear witch I have been taking if necesary(sorry for shit spelling)

[Omgitschris]

ok so... I have been prot most of the time I have been a pally but now every pally and there mother has seemed to roll prot and I have so many tanking friends and almost no healing friends that the choice is pretty clear I should go holy. Now I'm not new to healing as a pally but I'm used to tbc healing where the fol spam was key with hl in those oh shit moments. I have been looking at forums lately and seeing that alot of pallys can do a hl spam for quite a while... I'm geared in 10 man gear full epics but I seem to have problems lasting very long with a hl spam... even when I pace myself I tend to oom quickly.

I was wondering if I should be using divine plea every cd even w/ the 50% healing penalty or if I should be gearing more tward mp5 gear witch I have been taking if necesary(sorry for shit spelling)

I never Holy Light spam and top the meters for paladins at least whom use Holy Light spam. I don't see how it would work unless you have high crit which I feel like I do with Holy Light (39% without buffs). It would only be effective in large aoe damage bosses really.

Other than that in Heroics and so far in most bosses, Flash of Light/Judgement of Light/Holy Shock seems to do quite well for me.

[Xs]

You can almost totally ignore mp5, unless the mp5 is almost free when upgrading
Stack int till you're wiser than Yoda and get the Libram from heroic badges
Use Divine Plea wisely and add some kind of macro to remove the buff unless you're quite a fast clicker, but if you can afford to use it every time, use it (as long as you are using mana)

[Peladin]

that is exactly what I do and the same thing I was thinking when I was trying to disprove it. I keep a fol spam and holy shock whoever takes a big hit, using hl when absolutely necesary, I have just felt like I was doing somthing wrong so I figured I would ask. thanks for the response I'm going to go back to healing as I was :P

[Peladin]

yea I got about 39% holy crit unbuffed and 19k mana unbuffed with more then 400 spell haste. I have almost no mp5 gear and I never have mana problems with my curent meathod of healing altho all I really do is 10 mans curently. should I be getting beat by equaly geared priests and shamans in 10 mans I figured in 25 mans with jol it would be a given but I can't seem to beat them in 10 mans

[Xs]

In 10 mans theres generally not enough damage flying around for Paladins to be effective, specially if you're grouped with a Druid who can keep hots up on the tank and hot heal the raid at the same time.
You should be able to beat Shaman/Priests of equal skill/gear
Try healing it with 2 healers, without a Druid preferably and you'll see your HPS starting to become a problem
Generally good Druids will always beat you, unless theres some negative factor on their side.

No offense to you Omgitschris, but you haven't done any hard content, so I'm not surprised you aren't having problems

[Firecrest]

I never Holy Light spam and top the meters for paladins at least whom use Holy Light spam. I don't see how it would work unless you have high crit which I feel like I do with Holy Light (39% without buffs). It would only be effective in large aoe damage bosses really.

Other than that in Heroics and so far in most bosses, Flash of Light/Judgement of Light/Holy Shock seems to do quite well for me.

Ugh. Don't listen to this guy. FoL spam is dead. Not to be rude, but this person does not have the experience to be giving advice on what to do. His armory says that he has never even done Naxx 10 or 25 and is just in the past few days begining to do Heroics.

The problem with FoL spam is that we are tank healers. That's what we do. And tanks nowdays are running around with 40k health. The average FoL is like 4k. How on Earth are you going to keep up a tank by healing him 10% at a time? The other problem with FoL is that you're not getting that awesome splash that comes from the HL Glyph. A 17k heal on the tank follwed by 2k heals on 5 people around him is amazing on fights like Saph and Thaddius.

If you could give us an armory link, Peladin, it helps. You should be aiming for 20k+ mana unbuffed. At the point where you're starting to do 10 and 25 mans, you should probably be cramming +16 Int gems into every single slot regardless of gem bonuses (meet your meta though!).

Read this post (http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t35975-h...n_guide_wotlk/) on the ej forums. Everything you need to know about how to heal as a Holy Pally is right there.

[Deleted]

ok so... I have been prot most of the time I have been a pally but now every pally and there mother has seemed to roll prot and I have so many tanking friends and almost no healing friends that the choice is pretty clear I should go holy.

There are indeed lots of prot paladins and ret paladins around and compared to them quite few holy paladins. But I'd say expect to see even less holy paladins after 3.1 goes live. Being able to use Sacred Shield only on one target means choosing between tank or you, no one else. And now that Infusion of Light doesn't reduce the casting time of HL anymore holy healing basically comes down to keeping Beacon up on tank and spamming HL... Atleast I find that utterly boring and I loved Sacred Shield.

[Solad24]

TBH i still will love holy even after 3.1....who cares if we are getting a nerf (its not even that big if you think about it). The sacred shield nerf only means that in 10mans and 25mans you cant get an extra shield up on multiple tanks, despite that the odds in a 25man raid of having at least on more holy pally in your raid is good so in the large picture its really only a pvp nerf, which even as a holy paladin, i agree that holy needed a nerf in pvp....the only healer close to us is a disc priest. Yea i am kinda pissed about the Infusion of Light nerf but it really isnt that big, more crits=less mana used. SO with that buff up, say you have a 40% holy crit raid buffed your up to 60% holy light crit when you have that buff up which personally i think is almost as good as the previous talent. In any case im not that worried about my holy lights in 3.1 because of the new ulduar gear with mostly likely provide even more haste...sooo with a double trinket proc for the heroism healing trinket and trinket off maxxena, your holy lights wont suffer too much.

[Omgitschris]

Ugh. Don't listen to this guy. FoL spam is dead. Not to be rude, but this person does not have the experience to be giving advice on what to do. His armory says that he has never even done Naxx 10 or 25 and is just in the past few days begining to do Heroics.

The problem with FoL spam is that we are tank healers. That's what we do. And tanks nowdays are running around with 40k health. The average FoL is like 4k. How on Earth are you going to keep up a tank by healing him 10% at a time? The other problem with FoL is that you're not getting that awesome splash that comes from the HL Glyph. A 17k heal on the tank follwed by 2k heals on 5 people around him is amazing on fights like Saph and Thaddius.

If you could give us an armory link, Peladin, it helps. You should be aiming for 20k+ mana unbuffed. At the point where you're starting to do 10 and 25 mans, you should probably be cramming +16 Int gems into every single slot regardless of gem bonuses (meet your meta though!).

Read this post (http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t35975-h...n_guide_wotlk/) on the ej forums. Everything you need to know about how to heal as a Holy Pally is right there.

Don't listen to me? That's hilarious. Honestly you can read my armory all you want and you'll see that I've never done Naxx 25 or 10, that is, I havn't beat Saph or KT because I just hit 80 a week ago. I've completed all four wings on Heroic Naxx. And I've raided on both heroic and normal on my DK as well. I know the fights etc etc blah blah. Believe what you want but Flash of Light "spam" as you call it, still effectively works. Go ahead and spam holy light and go OOM before everyone else. I'll keep doing my job effectively, and efficiently, and without the need of a "guide" to tell me how to play.

Real players learn their class on their own, not with some guide to tell you how you should play.

[Straug]

Flash of light spam is weak. If you're spamming flash of light, you're not pulling your weight. If you're spamming FoL and your tank isn't dying, you're bringing too many healers to your raids.

It's perfectly viable to spam holy light with maybe a few flash of lights/holy shocks tossed in and not run out of mana. When you have 28k mana, replenishment and divine plea restore a ton of mana. Toss in a mana tide totem and you can spam all day long.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...mmer&n=Amarina

[Raiss]

If you are only using Flash Of Light, at the end of the fight you should have 80% or more mana, assuming that you use sacred shield + -50% mana cost cooldown. That means that you didn't use mora than 1/5 of your full healing, you can be easily replaced by a ret paladin healing only with divine storm.

FoL is usefull? Yes. But if you are geared, have replenish and a mana totem, you should be able to spam holy light no stop for 10 minutes or more on the current patch, so why just spamming weak heals? You MAY have to stop wasting mana like this on Ulduar (at least I hope), but now we surely don't. You don't need to worry about mana nowdays, you need to worry about people dieying because you were on GCD, so you should you it if a higher heal (if you can afford to, which you should).

I will give an ex: Sapphiron. On this fight, with ONE lucky holy light you can heal: 17k on a melee dps (assuming that he had low life, about 5k/22k), 5x 2k hits from Glyph on others melee dps and more plus 17k + 10k on the beaconed main tank. Most of it will be overhealed, but that's not the point. The point is: with a single GCD you healed 40k+ on the raid, with a flash you can't heal more than 15k (including beacon). HL cast isn't a problem since we can have 35%+ haste easily with raid buffs, and mana shouldn't be an issue too.

[Dekool]

Don't listen to me? That's hilarious. Honestly you can read my armory all you want and you'll see that I've never done Naxx 25 or 10, that is, I havn't beat Saph or KT because I just hit 80 a week ago. I've completed all four wings on Heroic Naxx. And I've raided on both heroic and normal on my DK as well. I know the fights etc etc blah blah. Believe what you want but Flash of Light "spam" as you call it, still effectively works. Go ahead and spam holy light and go OOM before everyone else. I'll keep doing my job effectively, and efficiently, and without the need of a "guide" to tell me how to play.

Real players learn their class on their own, not with some guide to tell you how you should play.

You're an idiot. If you can't 'spam' holy light and have it be 70 plus percent of your total healing your gear is bad. If you're topping meters using flash of light then everyone else is doing it wrong too.

[Hellsieg]

personally i use both FoL spam and HL spam tactics when running raids. in my opinion its fairly situational, fight such as patchwerk, instructor razuvious, grand widow faerlina when she enrages are infinitly easier with an HL spam.
fights like noth the plague bringer are just FoL spam fests. (i find these very boring)

either method can be effective and for any one with doubts about how HL spams are sustainable:

Glyph of Seal of Wisdom ends up reducing the average mana cost of Holy Light by more then 5%, because it doesn't change the amount of mana returned by Illumination. With Libram and 4pcT7, GSoW takes the mana cost from 1102 to 1044. Crits restore an average 344 mana, with 45% crit rate. That takes the average cost for HL without SoW to be 758, and 700 with it.

that 45% crit rate takes into account raid buffs

thats from the EJ forum which Firecrest posted the link to.

[Omgitschris]

You're an idiot. If you can't 'spam' holy light and have it be 70 plus percent of your total healing your gear is bad. If you're topping meters using flash of light then everyone else is doing it wrong too.

I CAN spam Holy Light but I don't need to, our healers are good to the point where it is unnecessary. The fact that you'd ever have to says a lot about the rest of the healers other players are with. And I never said I was topping meters I said I was topping among Paladins. I've never beat a CoH Priest in mass AoE circumstances.

[guntierhaas]

i have to disagree with those who say FOL is a waste of time. My pally is wearing all best in slot aside for two pieces, and my crit chance with fol is over 50 percent when fully raid buffed. If you throw sacred shield in there i have 100 percent crit chance at times. FOL with my sp crit for just under 8k and the cast time is 1.1 seconds. Not crits are sitting under 6k. There is no real reason to spam HL when something faster and more efficient can get the job done. Even 3d MT healing doesn't merit such wasteful practices. FOL spam into holy shock when spike damage occurs is more then enough to keep any tank up. There are times when HL becomes useful, an example is raid healing on 3d. When twilight torment is up the raid is taking ridiculous amounts of damage and dropping HLs on the melee is a very effective way to keep people alive, however this phase lasts maybe a minute out of a 8 minute fight so there is no need to just spam HL the whole fight.

As for stats, int is really good, but do not neglect sp and crit. Haste tops out (i,e 1.1 second fol, you need 500 more haste to get lower) at about 450 haste with judgement of the pure so socketing for more is wasted space. Int is really important because of divine plea and the stats it gives, however id rather have a couple more percent crit then a couple hundred mana points. SP is helpful because as pallys we only have (unless you count beacon and glyph of holy light) single target abilities. To me, this means when i heal somebody, it better heal them for some serious numbers. MP5 was really important in BC, but isn't worth much nowadays. I am interested to see where blizzard is taking our plate stats because almost all of the ulduar gear ive seen is dripping with mp5.

my armory link in case you would like to see what im gemmed and wearing, sometimes i will be in my pvp gear, so if i am just check back another time.
hope i could help,
-guntierhaas

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Guntierhaas

[Omgitschris]

i have to disagree with those who say FOL is a waste of time. My pally is wearing all best in slot aside for two pieces, and my crit chance with fol is over 50 percent when fully raid buffed. If you throw sacred shield in there i have 100 percent crit chance at times. FOL with my sp crit for just under 8k and the cast time is 1.1 seconds. Not crits are sitting under 6k. There is no real reason to spam HL when something faster and more efficient can get the job done. Even 3d MT healing doesn't merit such wasteful practices. FOL spam into holy shock when spike damage occurs is more then enough to keep any tank up. There are times when HL becomes useful, an example is raid healing on 3d. When twilight torment is up the raid is taking ridiculous amounts of damage and dropping HLs on the melee is a very effective way to keep people alive, however this phase lasts maybe a minute out of a 8 minute fight so there is no need to just spam HL the whole fight.

As for stats, int is really good, but do not neglect sp and crit. Haste tops out (i,e 1.1 second fol, you need 500 more haste to get lower) at about 450 haste with judgement of the pure so socketing for more is wasted space. Int is really important because of divine plea and the stats it gives, however id rather have a couple more percent crit then a couple hundred mana points. SP is helpful because as pallys we only have (unless you count beacon and glyph of holy light) single target abilities. To me, this means when i heal somebody, it better heal them for some serious numbers. MP5 was really important in BC, but isn't worth much nowadays. I am interested to see where blizzard is taking our plate stats because almost all of the ulduar gear ive seen is dripping with mp5.

my armory link in case you would like to see what im gemmed and wearing, sometimes i will be in my pvp gear, so if i am just check back another time.
hope i could help,
-guntierhaas

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&n=Guntierhaas

Thank you.

[YouMadMan]

Please do not listen to bad paladin that try to live in the past....... You are not negleting any crit stacking int to spam holy light, infact raid buffed i have 58% holy light crit. If you are spamming flash of light its just mean your guild is either carrying you or still running naxx and others with 5+ healers which is bad. The time 2 flash of light spammer will duo heal heroic patchwork is the day ill agree that flash of light spam is good. But guess what that day is not today. I have 29800 mana raid buffed.

Please follow the link to elitistjerks that was given to you. Listen to player that have done world first kills on boss insted of terribad that get carried in the current easy content TY.

[guntierhaas]

apparently i the cat above me thinks i am a bad even though he does not know me and has never seen me play.

thanks for being judgmental, its people like you that make the world a callus place.

and also, no i don't get carried, i generally sit on the top of the chart. I figure someone like the person who doubts me will just say i top charts because the rest are bads, but hey, the boss dies every time and people are still alive, so i figure i do my job well.

wtb more peps calling me a nub please. ty in advance.

-guntierhaas

[YouMadMan]

To the op the post above me is exactly the one you should ignore. Because they top the meter in ''their guild'' So they say, they are using the best way. Sadly its not how it works. Just go to the Elitistjerks link. The mmo-champion forum is often filled with bads and ppl like that usualy do not get permision to even post on elitistjerks.

Think about it this way are you gona listen to a random paladin about what he does in his guild or to the ones that are in guilds that been doing world first since vanilla wow and theorycrafting since then. Think about it 2 sec then click the link.

ps:Congrats you were able to beat SWP at lvl 80.... and took patch 3.0 to beat about anything above Serpentine cavern. You and your guild are true master of this game or mabye its a proof that the current content is a joke since baddies like you can clear it.