3.1 Bear Tanks

[Ranor]

Can you ppl stop creating dumb threads like this one anymore?

PTR with savage defence is up for a week now and you still come here with no clue whatsoever about the druid changes and the testing being done there.

Chek other threads here and stop these idiotic ones. Gief moderators to close them pls.

Hardly a dumb thread, troll. It's simply to gather an opinion, seeing as how i'm a healer trying to learn about the new tank situations. I'm not going to take time out of my schedule to nitpick from each thread on every forum, so I choose to bring them to me. For far i'm pleased by the positive feedback this thread has gotten, and from what I can gather..

Druids will be fine, QQers need to GTFO.

[Gigikent]

I lost a grand total of 2k HP and 6k Armor... from 36,5k to 34,5k and 31k to 25k respectively.

I'm rather confident savage defense is more than capable of outweighing this minor nerf.
And it prevents us from hitting the armor cap halfway through again.

^This.

It was really not normal for us to see 75% armour in Tier 1 content already (Tier 1 in WotlK ofc). If anything, I'm surprised we only lost 6k. It might be that SD will get a lowered AP bonus in the end before it goes live, and I bet it's till gonna be better than the "nerf" to armour&HP.

Hardly a dumb thread, troll. It's simply to gather an opinion, seeing as how i'm a healer trying to learn about the new tank situations. I'm not going to take time out of my schedule to nitpick from each thread on every forum, so I choose to bring them to me. For far i'm pleased by the positive feedback this thread has gotten, and from what I can gather..

Druids will be fine, QQers need to GTFO.

The troll dear Sir. is you. Otherwise you would have used the "Search button" and found diffrent threads leading to exacly what you found out. Learn maybe to get youreself better documented before posting. Just browsing the first 2 pages of this section, and you would have seen like 2-3 polls about this, therefore before accusing peaople maybe try not to create the same thing over and over again.

[Ranor]

I'm not going to take time out of my schedule to nitpick from each thread on every forum, so I choose to bring them to me.

End of arguement. Far too busy for that. Have a wonderful day.

[Ilfayt]

While I agree with you on the part that the post was missunderstood, I also must totally disagree with the fact that we need "only" dodge items. Also in this current content, there are quite a few good options for us in terms of rings/necks with dodge (a few have dodge and parry and they simply aren't for us ofc). They also have defence and that is NOT a bad stat for us at all (defence for druids = chance to be missed by bosses and others).
Don't forget that Ulduar gear will have more agility and dodge on it, and if we hit Diminishing Returns for dodge in Ulduar, we will want defence. Personally I don't think we'll hit Dim. Ret. that early, what the heck will we do in Icecrown gear you know? That's when I think DR will hit us harder.

Thats what I was saying he was saying(more dodge with no parry or shield stats till DR kicks in of course)

[buttonlight]

I dont expect many druids have yet seen the light on this, but Blizz added the shield for one reason, so that ferals could both dps in cat and tank in bear with one set of gear. Basically, all of our designated tank pieces should be switched out for rogue pieces (keeping the high value of stamina in mind while doing so).

For example

Favor of the Dragon Queen will be > Boundless Ambition for tanking in 3.1


Reasons listed below

1 point of Crit will provide more mitigation value than 1 point of defense

1 dodge rating gives less dodge rating than 1 agility

agility also gives armor, crit for more shield procs, and higher dps in cat form.

[Doompanther]

IMO from my own testing on the PTR the stam and armor nerfs were worth it seeing as our avoidance was buffed and we got that nice shield.

Also: I am reading some of your correctly? you guys DONT want defense on your gear? Are you that stupid? Once you are at the dodge soft cap (~50% ATM, but it is raised in 3.1) defense is better than dodge or agi for survivability. remember dodge has diminishing returns on it, so with Uldaur gear if you hit 60-70% dodge or whatever you'll REALLY want defense to raise your avoidance.

[Barbie]

Started beta: As for now I'm so tired of those crappy changes devs found in their rubbish for bears... other classes have shining skill animations and all they have for bears is second use mud: Barkskin doesen't look feral, 360° swipe is very disappointing in terms of consistent class design, 'Savage Defense' is nothing feral at all (a 'shield'-proc, how horrible class-design is that?) and new design for cat and bear is nothing Blizz could manage to do in some years... :-X

[Kallevalle]

YEA
IS so fun to see that blizztards punish ALL druids because that some druid wear Stamina only gear, then the other tanks get jelaous bla bla and start to whine, sigh.... and the answer is nerf nerf nerf nerf. But ofcourse they forget that those bears have very little dodge and avoidance, but that means nothing to blizz. Why cant they just give the bears a shield now then all tanks are the SAME!!
Was so much better in TBC, at least there was GEAR there that supported bear!!.
But now there is NOTHING, only stupid kittydps and rouge roflmao gear!!

R.I.P beardruid, it was fun, but now is all over

[Gilthoniel]

You are wrong, bears will be fine and possibly even better than now. Hp means nothing, tanking is not about how much dmg you can take, Its about how much dmg you can avoid/mitigate.

[Doompanther]

You are wrong, bears will be fine and possibly even better than now. Hp means nothing, tanking is not about how much dmg you can take, Its about how much dmg you can avoid/mitigate.

This, and from the looks of it we're going to gain roughly 10% avoidance after DR (about the same as other classes have for their parry.)

So lets recap:
Druid health is similar to other tanks, maybe a little higher.
Our avoidance is no longer the worst but is now about the same as the other tanks
we now have a "block" mechanic, it's not as good as block but it's something.

seems balanced to me.

[arel00]

YEA
IS so fun to see that blizztards punish ALL druids because that some druid wear Stamina only gear, then the other tanks get jelaous bla bla and start to whine, sigh.... and the answer is nerf nerf nerf nerf. But ofcourse they forget that those bears have very little dodge and avoidance, but that means nothing to blizz. Why cant they just give the bears a shield now then all tanks are the SAME!!
Was so much better in TBC, at least there was GEAR there that supported bear!!.
But now there is NOTHING, only stupid kittydps and rouge roflmao gear!!

R.I.P beardruid, it was fun, but now is all over

You have NO idea what Bears' real stats are now. NO idea about what our avoidance is, post-DR, when compared to the other tanks, NO idea what our HP scaling really is, NO idea about how much stronger block mechanics are when compared to armor.

Just for information: bears, warriors and paladins, raidbuffed, with equal gear sit at the same total avoidance. DKs sit behind, not in front.
A fully agility gemmed druid has, on average, 6-7k HP more than a fully stamina gemmed, equally geared warrior. Even after the nerf, on the PTR, the druid sits at 4-5k hp more.
Bears avoidance level, post DR, now are roughly around 50% total avoidance. I dare you to obtain more than 50% in TBC from T4-level gear. This isn't Sunwell kids, this is the Karazhan equivalent.

All the gear discussion is pure bullshit. We switched strength with AP, and oh how we're suffering. Bears TPS is skyrocketing to insane levels. If anything, it's "stupid kittydps" that should complain about that. We lost armor, and yet PotP (and this is math) more than made up for that. We gained tons of extra stats on our gear, expertise and hit are the most blatant examples, when in TBC our gear sucked badly when it came to have anything more than raw stats. Crit and AP, both of which we have plenty, are now mitigation stats as well.

You are a very accurate example of the mentality I was criticizing earlier in this thread. You understand nothing about tank mechanics, you understand nothing about scaling issues, you understand nothing about stats allocation, and yet all you do is whine whine whine, cry cry cry, without trying to get any real information.
But it's no problem really, mourn the supposed death of your bear druid and reroll another class. It's one less retarded whiner next time we'll get a patch.

[Aussa]

agree this isn't the end, SD is Waaaay better than it had ever looked mathwise on ptr ;D

but disagree i could manage about 60% dodge gear from kara and pre kara maybe one or 2 pieces from gruuls/maggy but thats what naxx/maly/sarth is now enyways

gear list
Head Malorne head
Neck Necklace of the Deep
Shoulders Mantle of Malorne
Chest Auchenai Monk's Tunic
Waist waistguard of the great beast
Legs Skulkers Greaves
Feet Edgewalkers longboots
Wrist band of the swift paw
Hands gloves of dextrous manipulation
Finger1 violet badge of the great defender
Finger2 Delicate Eternium Ring
Trinket1 Adamantine figurine
Trinket2 Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch
Back Cloak of Enduring Swiftness
MainHand terestian stranglestaff
Ranged Idol of Terror

Gave you roughly 60%+ dodge if socketed correctly chance raidbuffed

dks have a crazy active avoidance atm, easily attained with 60% they get 10% from talent and such, so no they arent leaking behind, we are for ones atm on live abit behind in avoidance, but SD will make up for it

still believe that the sta nerf is a little too much, but i get the point that we scaled too well (cant get better gear than polar boots atm lol xD ) but maybe 5% would have been enough, i dunno really but i think 10% is a little too much

but no the sky is falling any longer

[Gigikent]

Whoever thinks bear tanks are worse now on the PTR than on live after the changes, whoever thinks Savage Defense is a bad thing for us to have, whoever thinks loosing armour and hit points are the end of the bears, I have the same message others have put out there: please re-roll another class. Please do so now while you still have time to level a char to 80 before 3.1 hits Live.

We support you in the decision and encourage you to level level and yet again level whatever else you want. Gogogo :-*.

[Methius]

Am i just a noob or did they remove the Heart of the wild nerf as i cant see it in the patch update?

[Shinshiva]

Thats what I was saying he was saying(more dodge with no parry or shield stats till DR kicks in of course)

Lol thank you Sometimes it's just gotta be spelled out like in kindy

[Avermra]

You have NO idea what Bears' real stats are now. NO idea about what our avoidance is, post-DR, when compared to the other tanks, NO idea what our HP scaling really is, NO idea about how much stronger block mechanics are when compared to armor.

Just for information: bears, warriors and paladins, raidbuffed, with equal gear sit at the same total avoidance. DKs sit behind, not in front.
A fully agility gemmed druid has, on average, 6-7k HP more than a fully stamina gemmed, equally geared warrior. Even after the nerf, on the PTR, the druid sits at 4-5k hp more.
Bears avoidance level, post DR, now are roughly around 50% total avoidance. I dare you to obtain more than 50% in TBC from T4-level gear. This isn't Sunwell kids, this is the Karazhan equivalent.

All the gear discussion is pure bullshit. We switched strength with AP, and oh how we're suffering. Bears TPS is skyrocketing to insane levels. If anything, it's "stupid kittydps" that should complain about that. We lost armor, and yet PotP (and this is math) more than made up for that. We gained tons of extra stats on our gear, expertise and hit are the most blatant examples, when in TBC our gear sucked badly when it came to have anything more than raw stats. Crit and AP, both of which we have plenty, are now mitigation stats as well.

You are a very accurate example of the mentality I was criticizing earlier in this thread. You understand nothing about tank mechanics, you understand nothing about scaling issues, you understand nothing about stats allocation, and yet all you do is whine whine whine, cry cry cry, without trying to get any real information.
But it's no problem really, mourn the supposed death of your bear druid and reroll another class. It's one less retarded whiner next time we'll get a patch.

wow i love you

[arel00]

agree this isn't the end, SD is Waaaay better than it had ever looked mathwise on ptr ;D

but disagree i could manage about 60% dodge gear from kara and pre kara maybe one or 2 pieces from gruuls/maggy but thats what naxx/maly/sarth is now enyways

gear list
Head Malorne head
Neck Necklace of the Deep
Shoulders Mantle of Malorne
Chest Auchenai Monk's Tunic
Waist waistguard of the great beast
Legs Skulkers Greaves
Feet Edgewalkers longboots
Wrist band of the swift paw
Hands gloves of dextrous manipulation
Finger1 violet badge of the great defender
Finger2 Delicate Eternium Ring
Trinket1 Adamantine figurine
Trinket2 Moroes' Lucky Pocket Watch
Back Cloak of Enduring Swiftness
MainHand terestian stranglestaff
Ranged Idol of Terror

Gave you roughly 60%+ dodge if socketed correctly chance raidbuffed

Lower, post DR, but you got me there. I was thinking about the situation at Karazhan back in TBC, where we had to watch armor very carefully, and some of the listed choices, that are now good, were shabby due to low armor values (e.g. chest, legs and boots).
I'm happy to have been catched off guard in this case too. It just underlines how gear changes allowed a consisted buff.

[lostdruid]

it's not the end but i don't think blizzard will ever find a proper balance for bears because besides pve there's pvp as well.
and if people complaining about warriors tanks in pvp imagine a bear tank with block that can go kitty for dps any time.
for that idoubt sd will get boosted anytime soon unless the other classes dps scaling is better.

[arel00]

And I'm fine with that. SD doesn't need a boost, it just needs to be there. As things are on the PTR, I'm very very happy with the change. I surely hope they don't tune it down, but it doesn't need a buff.

[Shamb]

Just for information: bears, warriors and paladins, raidbuffed, with equal gear sit at the same total avoidance. DKs sit behind, not in front.

I hope you are talking about ptr... because in live DK's are not the last ... actually far from being the last, they lead, that's why blizzard nerfs DK tanks in 3.1.

You are right about the rest though. Bears NEEDED the change, they would've totally sucked in icecrown or even Ulduar for that matter... Scaling was the real problem, too close to being maxed Armor and getting hit by DR for agi AND dodge rating would've killed bear tank in later content. So they had to fix it.