[Priest] Talent & Glyph Discussion

[Renkk]

I mainly just want to compare what talents people are taking and why.

My spec right now is looking something like
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9684


I took it mainly with our mana regen nerf in mind. A few things i'll note.

1. Serendipity seems like a pretty garbage talent now.. so that point is expendable.. i simply dont see why I would need to cast a really quick greater heal at the cost of so much mana (though it will allow for very clutch raid heals and greater heals.. so there may be fights when this is very very useful)

2. Blessed Resilience.. I dont know my feelings on this. I think 3% healing effectiveness is pretty damn good.. so I will probably take it, just because im a fan of overall effectiveness skills though the 3 points would be nice to have.

3. Body and Soul?... I raid with people that can cleanse poisons.. not my job :P

4. Overall I like the spec.. I would love to have the extra points for healing prayers and finishing inspiration.. and now that i look back i would maybe scrap that serendipity point for inner focus but IDK since OOFSR isnt such a big deal anymore.


anyway feel free to critique this spec at will.

I also would love to hear some feedback on upcoming gemming


btw.. so I can lend some sort of validity to this thread

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...theron&n=Renkk


^ my priest

[Zeuq]

Your spec link doesn't seem to be working, it just links to a blank spec.

Anyway, here's what I'm probably going to spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...1&version=9684

I'd love to pick up Blessed Resilience, but I just don't think there's enough points to grab it without giving up something else. I don't consider Test of Faith to be a good place to take the points from like I've seen some suggest. 3% is good, but it's only better when the person is above 50%, at which point you're probably overhealing, meanwhile Test of Faith gives the healing when you need it most and will probably serve a lot of good when combined with Prayer of Healing or Circle of Healing when the raid takes some massive hits.

I also dropped Surge of Light in favor of Healing Prayers expecting that it will probably save me more mana in the long run, but that depends on the damage going out. Also, truth be told, I never liked Surge of Light because I found the mechanic clunky, and as often as I'd like to have that instant heal, I'd often not have it available when I could use it. The new Empowered Renew seems to fill the role of the SoL instant cast fairly well and, while it heals for considerably less, it is always available, which I think will make it more useful. It has some synergistic problems with the new Holy Concentration, since the instant FH cannot crit, and that bothers me. Finally, I hope I just plain won't be using Flash Heal as much as I am now. I can see using for stacking Serendipity, but I suspect that come 3.1, those instant FH procs will less often be the spell I want to cast when SoL procs. Of course, I reserve the right to change my opinion on it since I haven't seen how mana will play out yet.

[Danner]

Your link is wrong. Should look like something like this. Here is mine

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9684

I agree on your objections to serendipity in theory. 30% spellhaste is not a lot. It's notable, but nothing you can't live without; you heal just fine as it is now. I'll try it out; might be worthwhile to pick at the end of the day anyway, but nothing worth doing silly dances over. Listed talent tree above does not have it.

Blessed resilience is actually decent for PVE now. +3% heals is a very good value for 3 talent points; it's not like anything else in the deep end of the tree is unmissable; might as well go for something that will give you good value. A flat +healing boost is boring, but better than the alternatives.

Body and Soul is a PVP talent. Movement speed increase won't help me in raids, and the poison dispel is not my job. It's also a deep holy pvp talent, making it kinda silly.

New Test of Faith is crap. Hardly notable extra healing on people low on health. The old version was quite notable, but not surefire. But when it triggered a crit, you could always say "Thank you, Test of faith!". It really made a difference when hurling a CoH at a low health raid.

I always end up dropping Empowered Healing. It's expensive, and only affect my single target heals. Which are way strong enough already, thank you very much. It's e-peen to show off a 16k crit, but is it remotely useful?

Holy Reach is a talent i like personally, but it's not giving me much tbh. Just like being able to stay further back than everyone else. If I need more talent points, this is the first to go.

Mental Agility is a talent I think every holypriest shoud get after 3.1. Mana will be our only showstopper, and this talent will help a lot!

[Zeuq]

I agree on your objections to serendipity in theory. 30% spellhaste is not a lot. It's notable, but nothing you can't live without; you heal just fine as it is now. I'll try it out; might be worthwhile to pick at the end of the day anyway, but nothing worth doing silly dances over. Listed talent tree above does not have it.

Blessed resilience is actually decent for PVE now. +3% heals is a very good value for 3 talent points; it's not like anything else in the deep end of the tree is unmissable; might as well go for something that will give you good value. A flat +healing boost is boring, but better than the alternatives.

New Test of Faith is crap. Hardly notable extra healing on people low on health. The old version was quite notable, but not surefire. But when it triggered a crit, you could always say "Thank you, Test of faith!". It really made a difference when hurling a CoH at a low health raid.

Of these three talents, I don't understand why you'd take the flat 3% over that much Haste when compared to Serendipity. That much haste basically makes a Greater Heal after 3 Flash Heals cast in roughly the same time as a Flash Heal, while having the throughput of a Greater Heal. I think it will do a lot more to increase your throughput than a flat 3%. I already explained my preference for Test of Faith as, 3% just doesn't seem that useful when you're already above 50%, but below is when you really want it, and that's where Test of Faith shines.

Holy Reach is a talent i like personally, but it's not giving me much tbh. Just like being able to stay further back than everyone else. If I need more talent points, this is the first to go.

This won't let you stand farther back when healing, it only affects the radius of your healing spells. I never have trouble with CoH radius since it's raid wide, I never use Holy Nova to heal, and Prayer of Healing has a 30 yard radius which should never be a problem to have an entire group inside of. This talent just doesn't look like it will do much at all.

Mental Agility is a talent I think every holypriest shoud get after 3.1. Mana will be our only showstopper, and this talent will help a lot!

I'd like to get it, it's just too expensive (4 points, since the point in Improved PW:S is virtually useless) and it only affects Renew, CoH, and Prayer of Mending of spells that a Holy Priest will use regularly. Prayer of Mending is already great HPM and is already improved with Healing Prayers, so it seems like a bit of a waste there. CoH is a great spell, but the cooldown limits its effectiveness too. And even as cool as the new Renew is, I don't think saving 10% on those 3 spells will save as much mana as more throughput from those 4 points spent in the Holy tree will ultimately save you by having to cast fewer spells.

[Venara]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9684

Ulduar will be throwing out a lot of raid damage, that's why i picked up Healing Prayers and Holy Reach. With PoH being castable on any raid group now this will surely be noticable.

I skipped Desperate Prayer and Lightwell. Lightwell still isn't really useful since people are required to actually click it causing them to lose their target, etc. Desperate Prayer is not needed in any build. Binding Heal can do the same trick. Also with BH you can continue healing your tank.

Blessed Resilience - Looks sexy but 3 points are a lot for a talent that provides a marginal PvE effect and has a secondary PvP effect that you do not have any use for in raids.

Test of Faith - This talent never convinced me. How often do your heals really land on people that are at 50% or below? Most of the time that person was already healed above that threshold by someone else.

Body and Soul - It's a PvP talent. Not worth 2 points in a holy healing build.

Empowered Renew - Powerful tool with glyph and all talents. Works like Riptide. I imagine i'll be using Renew a lot more after 3.1 hits than i do now.

[Kelesti]

To the above posters saying Blessed Resilience > Test of Faith, Blessed Resilience might be up 100% of the time, but Test of Faith is pretty much guaranteed to not be overheal, "there-when-you-need-it" type of thing.

So here is My stereotypical cookie cutter spec complete with glyphs.

[Failpriest]

the spec i will be using as holy in 3.1
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...1&version=9684

also i will keep gearing for Crit, Spirit and Spell power and gemming for crit/spell

[Renkk]

fixed my spec-- Added Glyphs

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...3&version=9684


yeah didnt proofread my post earlier sorry the spec was missing :P

[Renkk]

To the above posters saying Blessed Resilience > Test of Faith, Blessed Resilience might be up 100% of the time, but Test of Faith is pretty much guaranteed to not be overheal, "there-when-you-need-it" type of thing.

So here is My stereotypical cookie cutter spec complete with glyphs.

- You skipped impowered healing, there is simply no reason not to max that talen out.. sorry but the other talents are not nearly as strong

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9684

- you said you skipped desperate prayer.. doesnt appear so in the link i see and it says you took lightwell..

anyway, test of faith is a very strong talent IMO. I feel serendipity would be extremely useful in short fights.. but long fights will end up being a mana drain.

Your spec link doesn't seem to be working, it just links to a blank spec.

Anyway, here's what I'm probably going to spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...1&version=9684

I'd love to pick up Blessed Resilience, but I just don't think there's enough points to grab it without giving up something else. I don't consider Test of Faith to be a good place to take the points from like I've seen some suggest. 3% is good, but it's only better when the person is above 50%, at which point you're probably overhealing, meanwhile Test of Faith gives the healing when you need it most and will probably serve a lot of good when combined with Prayer of Healing or Circle of Healing when the raid takes some massive hits.

I also dropped Surge of Light in favor of Healing Prayers expecting that it will probably save me more mana in the long run, but that depends on the damage going out. Also, truth be told, I never liked Surge of Light because I found the mechanic clunky, and as often as I'd like to have that instant heal, I'd often not have it available when I could use it. The new Empowered Renew seems to fill the role of the SoL instant cast fairly well and, while it heals for considerably less, it is always available, which I think will make it more useful. It has some synergistic problems with the new Holy Concentration, since the instant FH cannot crit, and that bothers me. Finally, I hope I just plain won't be using Flash Heal as much as I am now. I can see using for stacking Serendipity, but I suspect that come 3.1, those instant FH procs will less often be the spell I want to cast when SoL procs. Of course, I reserve the right to change my opinion on it since I haven't seen how mana will play out yet.

I can sorta see where you're coming from... but theres just no way to justify not having SoL its such a good mana save.. considering PoM only needs to be cast when all the charges are used up. Also I think PoH isnt going to be a very strong raid heal, the mana cost and the fact it isnt a smart heal will make it considerably weaker on many fights. Only type of fights where it will be extremely useful will be fights where one group or everyone is all gettting hit equally. (maly, saph)

Your link is wrong. Should look like something like this. Here is mine

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9684

I agree on your objections to serendipity in theory. 30% spellhaste is not a lot. It's notable, but nothing you can't live without; you heal just fine as it is now. I'll try it out; might be worthwhile to pick at the end of the day anyway, but nothing worth doing silly dances over. Listed talent tree above does not have it.

Blessed resilience is actually decent for PVE now. +3% heals is a very good value for 3 talent points; it's not like anything else in the deep end of the tree is unmissable; might as well go for something that will give you good value. A flat +healing boost is boring, but better than the alternatives.

Body and Soul is a PVP talent. Movement speed increase won't help me in raids, and the poison dispel is not my job. It's also a deep holy pvp talent, making it kinda silly.

New Test of Faith is crap. Hardly notable extra healing on people low on health. The old version was quite notable, but not surefire. But when it triggered a crit, you could always say "Thank you, Test of faith!". It really made a difference when hurling a CoH at a low health raid.

I always end up dropping Empowered Healing. It's expensive, and only affect my single target heals. Which are way strong enough already, thank you very much. It's e-peen to show off a 16k crit, but is it remotely useful?

Holy Reach is a talent i like personally, but it's not giving me much tbh. Just like being able to stay further back than everyone else. If I need more talent points, this is the first to go.

Mental Agility is a talent I think every holypriest shoud get after 3.1. Mana will be our only showstopper, and this talent will help a lot!

- Mental Agility is not justifiable for what you dropped. Empowered healing is far to strong to drop, if you actually really really wanted mental agility (which its honestly not viable.. the holy tree is just too yummy atm)

you should go for something like this if you cant live without mental agility.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9684

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feel free to continue the conversation would love to get some theorycrafting done here

[imaboredman]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...1&version=9684

[Sedative]

To the above posters saying Blessed Resilience > Test of Faith, Blessed Resilience might be up 100% of the time, but Test of Faith is pretty much guaranteed to not be overheal, "there-when-you-need-it" type of thing.

So here is My stereotypical cookie cutter spec complete with glyphs.

you got your aligator mouth eating the wrong one there bud!

[nikkita]

so far, on ptr i've been playing this spec (after changing it several times):
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9684

1. lightwell - its nice to have it in uldar (believe it or not), this point was taken from inner focus in discipline tree. If inner focus will be re-designed as a 20 sec buff reducing mana costs by Xx% and increasing crit by Xx% then i'd take it, atm on ptr all innerfocus gave was a free mana spell / high crit, it doesn't tremendously effect my regen any more (as it did till now and was the main reason i had it: out of combat regen). My guildmates actually clicked it in uldar, also adds to my 'versatility' when i'm on tank healing i even opened it near the tanks (yes the tanks seem to always click it). so it is worth the 'losing inner focus' for me.

2. Holy reach and Healing prayers - i've played on ptr with both - let me assure: holy reach - the extra range - is not needed, even the 'spreading out' was not that much - playing without it made absolutly no difference. Healing prayers is nice, i wish i had points for both these talents, but after testing them they became my lowest priorty, or 'skipable' - you can trade these points from almost any holy talent that seems better for you.

3. SoL helps weaving haste to my greater heal and/or prayer of healing. Why is it needed, each one and his own use and own way (fast big heal to raid, fast heal to tank while healing raid etc), i might reduce surge of light to 1 point tonight and see how the proc rate it, i agree atm 2 points in SoL makes me feel like i 'miss' or 'don't use' the proc as often as it procs.(Serendipity is abit lame, but i still need the haste sometimes).

4. test of faith; i donno why people think this talent ain't good. i played without it on ptr and it might be the only talent i actually felt like i miss. testing the ptr most of the raid damage or tank damage got the player below 50% hp (considering we all have 25m gear, ilvl 226-213), it is very noticable, it helps alot, it gives you the extra + heal when you need. you can trade this for blessed ressiliance if you don't like it. But i'd like to remind you: in SW gear when traveling in my first 2 weeks of wotlk - everything got me to 50% hp or lower. with fine, top epic gear on the ptr, the damage on tank easily got them below 50%, and some raid damage was pretty much the same. i truely recomend this talent, atleast till all get more gear/hp.

5. DP - i wanted to skip this, but i can't. this saves my ass to many times.


I wish i had enough points to pick blessed ressilience, holy reach and healing prayers, unfortunatly the holy talent tree is designed where you can't pick many points. (i admit i get frustrated seeing how easy the choice is on my holy paladin, but i know blizz won't make any change, although i hope so). Since my points are limited i skip these 3, which you can trade for SoL, test of faith or any other talent that you find not usefull.
i wanted a colored text as well!

[Danner]

- Mental Agility is not justifiable for what you dropped. Empowered healing is far to strong to drop, if you actually really really wanted mental agility (which its honestly not viable.. )

I'm disagreeing on this one, to be honest.

Empowered healing is strong, that I agree on. Assuming 2.1k spellpower, it increase GHeal by ~1000 and fheal by ~500.
But at the same time, Both FHeal and GHeal are "strong enough" even without these additions.
My 4.5k fheal is not as strong as your 5k fheal. But both heals will unconditionally save a life when cast.
My 8k gheal is not as strong as your 9k gheal. But both heals are too powerful as is; the moment your tank will regularly need a 16k crit, you are doing something wrong.

There was a good argument for picking this talent pre-3.1 due to its good synergy with old Serendipity: larger heals -> bigger chance of overhealing -> more mana back. This went the way of the dodo bird, so this talent is my first choice fro dropping. It's expensive, and all it does is pad e-peen meters. It's fun to say "zomg, I healed for 16k!", but it's not worth 5 talent points imo.

the holy tree is just too yummy atm

Not really. Only really four talents that are good in deep holy.
Holy concentration: Unmissable, being the only mana talent in deep holy.
Circle of Healing: Way underpowered now, gets better in 3.1. I think this will be pretty nice.
Divine Providence: 5 talent points for -3 sec ProM cooldown is very expensive, but also very good. I hear rumors that this talent has a secondary effect, but who cares.
Guardian Spirit: Best tool the holy priest has available, high amount of jedi reflexes required.

The rest... not that unmissable, really.
Lightwell: Nuff said.
Blessed Resilience: Still a PVP talent. The fact that PVE priests take this now means that the other talents are subpar.
Body and Soul: PVP talent. Noone will take it.
Empowered Healing: see above.
Serendipity: Hasted PoH is fun, but I it's not exactly unmissable.
Empowered Renew: Brings renew up to par with FHeal. More choice in cast style, but fheal can still do the job alone.
Test of Faith: very weak

[magicism]

I have seen people dancing around this but I still think this is gunna be the spec I chose.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...1&version=9684

With Renews capacity to now crit it should make SoL even more effective. Not missing out much on the new holy talents and still speccing up to 10% less instant cast cost.

Just my 2 cents.

[Venara]

- you said you skipped desperate prayer.. doesnt appear so in the link i see and it says you took lightwell..

Fixed. Don't know why the link contained both talents.

[Kelesti]

you got your aligator mouth eating the wrong one there bud!

Test of Faith -is- better. Enough said.

[Kelesti]

- You skipped impowered healing, there is simply no reason not to max that talen out.. sorry but the other talents are not nearly as strong

Keeping Test of Faith and Lightwell, care to show me where else I can take those points from without sacrificing Circle or Mending's cooldown?

[Sedative]

Test of Faith -is- better. Enough said.

But yet you wrote it as "Blessed Resilience > Test of Faith"

which reads as "Blessed Resilience is greater than Test of Faith"

Besides that, both of the talents suck.

14/57/0

[Sanguissa]

51/5/15 as ussually.

Oh wait, this is not paladin post. I agree wiht OP, definitly best spec..for..you know, Healodamage or something like that.

[Puddinsnack]

Personally this is the spec I believe I will go with:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...6&version=9684

Many times DP has saved me (mainly due to my own fault, sadly) so I've become rather attached to it.

Holy Reach just doesn't seem that awesome as a talent. CoH is a smart heal and I'm smart enough not to cast it on someone standing far enough away for it to reach others, and PoH has a large enough radius.

If I could I would take 2 points out of Inspiration and place them into Empowered Healing, but I can't, and honestly GH and FH are amazing spells themselves and I think maxing that talent out will just make them over heal more.

<3 Test of Faith over Blessed Resilience.