Ive got to know, Genesis

[Cantthink]

does Genesis affect bleed? im trying to come up with some 3.1 dps and 3.1 soloing specs and theres just not enought Dps feral talents to use up all the points.

[Koumaru]

No. And if it did, even with bleeds critting, 5 talent points for a 5% damage increase on Rake and Rip would still be terrible lackluster.

[Selverein]

Maybe not terrible, simply lackluster.

But yeah, Genesis does not affect bleeds.

[Leafre]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

Ofc, you can spend your points :P

[Elunedra]

Ofc, you can spend your points :P

verry tru if u making a dps build and got spare points then u made a mistake :P

[Jedibezy]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

Ofc, you can spend your points :P

id go something more like this

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

infected wounds is useless since you'll have wars thunderclaping, also since arms is getting a major buff im sure youll see one in your raid so you won't need mangle. the 3 points in FA could be thrown around, but as far as pure dps builds go, those 3 points do add to when you FB with extra combo points. Imp pounce = one extra tick, and another hit before applying rake.

as far as the topic goes, what selverein said.

[Starlaxboy]

Is currently the top cat dps build. With the changes to how shred glyph work this allows us to FB more often. You won't need any of the bear talents due to duel spec'ing.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

[CSJenova]

id go something more like this

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

infected wounds is useless since you'll have wars thunderclaping, also since arms is getting a major buff im sure youll see one in your raid so you won't need mangle. the 3 points in FA could be thrown around, but as far as pure dps builds go, those 3 points do add to when you FB with extra combo points. Imp pounce = one extra tick, and another hit before applying rake.

as far as the topic goes, what selverein said.

Why spend 3 points in protector of the pack if you are going for a pure DPS build? The AP bonus is only bear form. Also, brutal impact only increases the duration of the stun, not the dot, so again for raiding that is hardly useful. Granted...those 5 points would not be best spent in Genesis as it doesn't affect your dots, but you could then put them into either feral aggression, since the new shred glyph will mean we won't have to rip as much, or into imp mangle if you don't have an arms warrior in your raid.

[Jedibezy]

i actually copied the wrong build and posted it, i always forget to copy the build i worked on and instead copy the url.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

is what i ment to post. and i had assumed that if the stun was longer, the bleed would be to. did you test that?

[CSJenova]

The stun duration isn't the same length of time as the DoT duration anyway. Since the tooltip only says it increases the stun duration without mentioning the DoT at all, so I don't see any reason for it to extend the dot. Even if it does, I don't have any math, but I could easily see another 6% damage to FB doing more damage over the course of a fight than 1 extra tick on an ability you can only use once in the fight. You want to be getting rake up as soon as SR is up anyway, so pounce ticking longer shouldn't really affect that either. The rake tick is primarily for the damage as it is one of our primary damage abilities, it increasing the crit chance of FB is just a bonus.

[Starlaxboy]

I posted this build earlier in the thread, but now I have a little more time to say why it's the top dps build. http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

First off, I'm doing a build just for dps I'm looking at talents that increase dmg, increase crit, reduce energy cost/regen energy, and increase crit dmg.

Tier 1 of the Feral tree You want 5 in both because in Ferocity you are reducing the cost to 3 major attacks by 5 energy (rake, mangle, and swipe). With the change to shred glyph there will be more oppurtunity to use FB and this increase that dmg by 15% and with a later talent I crit 100% with it.

Tier 2 SF and FI both increase dmg done by attacks- you don't need the extra armor if you just dps'ing.

Tier 3 SC's is the only thing truly worth while for the extra crit. I put one into FS just for the speed increase on moving (this talent point you can put where ever you want)

Tier 4 Take them all. PP is the only exception and it all depends on what your individual hit/expertise is at. Generally speaking for most druids getting 2/2 will help, and the ones who have a ton of expertise and are hit capped know what I'm talking about.

Tier 5 I just get FC bc of random knockbacks and it allows me to get back to the boss faster to keep dps'ing.

Tier 6 HotW and SotF are both no brainers to max out.

Tier 7 I personally only take LothP and that is it. I generally run with other druids and found that most of the healing from Imp LothP was just overhealing.

Tier 8 Max out PI bc of the increase dmg to crits. The other two talents are more geared towards tanking

Tier 9 KotJ is an amazing talent because of the instant energy regen. Mangle is another no brainer. I have debated this on EJ, and taking imp Mangle is a toss up. I take it bc of the mangle energy reduction, and there are fights where I have had to keep up mangle due to the other druid dying or he was tanking not the boss but adds.

Tier 10 RnT is a great talent and I still see druids not maxing it out. More dmg to shred and this is why my FBs crit 100% of the time (50% from this talent and 50% from gear and buffs) most raid geared druids should be at least critting 90% of their FBs now. Primal Gore... Amazing!!!!! Finally having our bleeds crit, enough said.

Tier 11 I take berserking and use it shorty right after the tank has good amount of aggro so I can use it again later in the fight. Shred and FB dmg has never been so much fun.

The last 16 talents are going in the resto tree

Tier 1 I will be putting 2 into Imp MotW due to the 2% stat increase, and I will be taking 2 points from Furor making it 3/5. Generally, you don't shift right before you pull, and by the time you pull you will have 100% energy along with power shifting dead its not as important as it once was.

Tier 2 I still see lots of druids not maxing out Naturalist get it and enjoy 10% more dmg done, and then put 3 points into MS.

Tier 3 Finally put your last 2 points into Imp MS for the crit buff


Use a spec that caiters to your game style and just have fun with it.

[Cantthink]

Right so far everyone build has 3 or 4 wasted talent points, the best i can come up with is

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

which has 3 points spare IIRC maybe put on the FB if i will be using it more in 3.1 but i wanted to know considering Rip does about 25% of my overall dmg so far and FB does well no where near that, the 3% extra dmg from rip would have been nice.

as it dosent work i have 3 talent points that as far as i can see are only good from Imp FB and Imp Mangle bothof which arent right up there on the most wanted dps talents.

[Boella]

Cantthink yeah you live up to your name , you can't think why did you put 3/3 in Thick hide and why not in Survival instinct this talent can save your life many times even in cat form -.-
I would go for http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684
Why feral charge ? This one can be useful in battles like Sapphiron etc. Why Survival instinct It can save your life and still got 1 point to spare

[Cantthink]

Cantthink yeah you live up to your name , you can't think why did you put 3/3 in Thick hide and why not in Survival instinct this talent can save your life many times even in cat form -.-
I would go for http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684
Why feral charge ? This one can be useful in battles like Sapphiron etc. Why Survival instinct It can save your life and still got 1 point to spare

i dont die at Sapphiron, i dont have SI because im Dps i dont want to waste talents.

3/3 in thick hide as i need to put points somewhere to progress thru the feral tree.

i love the way people have to comment on my screen name also, well at least it grabs attention right because i have no idea what your screen name even is. the only times i die in a raid is when we are wiping im sure you might need all the pointless pvp talents but i dont.

[Selverein]

i dont have SI because im Dps i dont want to waste talents.

Yet you have Thick Hide. At least do yourself a favor and drop 1 point of Thick Hide and put it in Survival Instinct. Or take all 3 and put them in FA, since you say you're going pure DPS.

But if you want to avoid flames, just don't say everyone has wasted points when you, yourself, do.

[Boella]

I redone the talent spec and i came up with http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684
as you dont use Ferocite bite so it is better to have 30% increased speed and such and i'm stuck with 1 point and this must be the most ultimate PURE Cat dps spec with abit survival

And at Cantthink , yeah Drop the Thick hide and put in Improved Leader of the pack ( This helps the raid ALOT ) and Put the rest in FA or Improved Mangle what ever you like but what i saw in your comment that you preffer 10% armor instead of 30% Hp that can save your life in battles like Os+3 or anyone.
You have been TARDED.

[Tharkkun]

With rip and savage roar being extended for longer periods of time you should be able to sneak in ferocious bites easily without breaking your
rotation. So yeah FB will be worth it.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

Provides aoe dps for trash and maximum raid dps. You could remove 3 points in feral instinct and put them in mangle if you want to save even more energy. The feral charge point is a floater, it can be put anywhere. Don't skimp on improved lotp. With all the new raid periodic damage I believe it will have more benefit in Ulduar. We'll have to see...



EDIT: Weird my build didn't come over right...I'm missing a bunch of points being used.

[Starlaxboy]

For pure dps you do not need Survival Instincts. You will most likely have a health stone, pot, barksin, or just pop into bear and frenzy regen. This falls into the utility category, and if you are having trouble staying alive then yes it is a great talent to invest into. I generally think that Survival instincts, Feral Swiftness, and Imp LotP generally fall into utility talents. It's nice to move at 30% speed but doesn't do anything to increase your dps, maybe a little with getting to the boss faster (you could also just charge it). Imp LotP generally on my recount shows mainly over healing. Also, if you have another druid that is spec'd into it you don't need to waste the talent points because they don't stack.

Cantthink your build is very similar to what I posted, but my only question to you is do you value the extra 500-600 armor you get in cat form from Thick Hide or would you value extra 12% dmg done on FB? Also, remember you will most likely be crit'ing at least 90% of the time. I personally don't value 500-600 extra amor for 3 talents when I'm only dps'ing.

Imp Mangle is not wasted talent points. The only way it would be wasted talent points is if you are running with another Feral Druid/war who always keeps up mangle/trauma on every target you are fighting. Let's say that you are glyphed and have to keep mangle up yourself (18sec duration). Your mangle with 3 in Imp Mangle you save 6 energy each application. Over a 3 minute boss fight you save 60 energy or the equivilant to one use of Tiger's Fury. You save more energy as the fight increases in length.

Wasted talents are ones that do not increase your overal objective.

[Alski]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...0&version=9684

^ maximum dps spec

[Cantthink]

Wow yeah thanks guys missed the point completely, i said i dont want to waste points yet my build does (or there abouts) and so far the best people have come up with is change armour for Hp or Armour for Hp/mana regen for the raid yet im getting flammed.

as for the build ill probably use Alski's looks pritty decent even tho i still see wasted points.

and honestly i really arnt that bothered about 'helping' the raid i just wanna top dmg meters with a kitty.