Prot Stats Priority

[onetruebob]

Hey all, I apologize if this has been covered before. When TBC came out I leveled up my pally from lvl 30 to 70 as prot and really enjoyed it. After lvling up a DK and getting bored with it, I went back to my pally. I've done all of WotLK as Ret so far, but miss my days as Prot and plan on dual-speccing into it when 3.1 hits.

Anyway, I'm familiar with tanking changes that have occurred but I do have a couple questions as I start to acquire tanking gear. I know priority one is getting 540 def (535 for heroics), but what comes next? Should the next goal be to reach the block cap of 102.4% by prioritizing block rating over dodge/parry or should I work on avoidance knowing that the block will come over time? How highly should I value the "block value" stat? When gemming, is it still the standard practice to always gem stamina?

Thanks,
OneTrueBob

[b37x]

What's your unbuffed HP?

[Deleted]

540 Defense -> 102.4% -> stam. Gem accordingly.

A tank with 20k HP but 102.4% block cap isn't too good.

[sanguineraven]

A tank with 20k HP but 102.4% block cap isn't too good.

No but as long as you reach 102.4% with WotLK end game gear I don't think you will be struggling to break 20k HP . Common sense ftw.

[Deleted]

No but as long as you reach 102.4% with WotLK end game gear I don't think you will be struggling to break 20k HP . Common sense ftw.

But it's just plain wrong to say that avoidance > stamina no matter what. Stamina is usually a lot more useful for people who are still progressing.

[Offhand]

Anyway, I'm familiar with tanking changes that have occurred but I do have a couple questions as I start to acquire tanking gear. I know priority one is getting 540 def (535 for heroics), but what comes next? Should the next goal be to reach the block cap of 102.4% by prioritizing block rating over dodge/parry or should I work on avoidance knowing that the block will come over time? How highly should I value the "block value" stat? When gemming, is it still the standard practice to always gem stamina?

What fight are we talking about?

I can't tell you how to effectively gear unless I know the outline of the fight.

[b37x]

I feel the exact opposite, sanguineraven.

As long as you reach 30k HP with WotLK end game gear I don't think you will be struggling to break 102%.

And for a pally just starting to gear a tank, the OP is probably in need of a bigger health pool and 102% is out of his or her immediate reach. Priorities should be stamina gems, and running heroic Azjol for essence of gossamer and heroic Stratholm for the shield.

[Quest]

But it's just plain wrong to say that avoidance > stamina no matter what. Stamina is usually a lot more useful for people who are still progressing.

Stamina is going to come on the gear regardless so your point is moot and has no real premise in the actual game. What he said is realistic.

I had 23k health in blues without even trying. Look into what 'effective health' is.

[Deleted]

Look into what 'effective health' is.

That's a term people like to throw around quite a lot these days. Unfortunately it's a very misleading term. And how do you f.ex calculate your "effective health" if you have 23k HP and 20% parry?

[davep]

stamina > dodge > parry > block, obviously you need a 540 defense

[Quest]

stamina > dodge > parry > block, obviously you need a 540 defense

Wrong.

Also a 20k tank can be better than a 30k tank depending on BV. But see, this and that are just ridiculous because items ingame do not reflect either. Stamina become much more worth when you're blockcapped BECAUSE of the available items in the actual game. Their are plenty of places that can teach you what EH is so use google.

[angelesis]

Wrong.

Also a 20k tank can be better than a 30k tank depending on BV. But see, this and that are just ridiculous because items ingame do not reflect either. Stamina become much more worth when you're blockcapped BECAUSE of the available items in the actual game. Their are plenty of places that can teach you what EH is so use google.

Well due to the amount of misinformation that has become rampant on these forums Im going to lend a hand.

For paladin tanks- Stat priority is crit immunity/Stam/avoidance then ............... reallllly far away block value/rating.


Ill explain why. First off if you look at progression guilds and hard more encounters the vast majority of bosses due massive magical damage. Since paladins have no cd's to mitigate this damage currently we have to really on 2 options massive health pools and and a lucky roll that causes the damage to spike us under 35% hp and not kill us.

#2 block rating is worthless with proper avoidance gear and holy shield even against many many adds your holy shield charges should not run out. and even then we have redoubt. a properly geared tank will have 50%ish dodge/parry and less low ball here 15% block. with 10% chance to be missed. thats 75% stackit hit removal add holy shield your past your 102.4% required not even taking into account redoubt.

Effective health due to shield block value. is worthless simply to due the speed and massive hits bosses currently hit for. blocking 8% of incoming damage every 3 seconds is not nearly as effective as dodging it.
not only that block value and rating eat up item budget like no tomorrow.

if you need threat work on your rotation no one should be taking threat from a prot paladin.

[Telant]

Also a 20k tank can be better than a 30k tank depending on BV. But see, this and that are just ridiculous because items ingame do not reflect either. Stamina become much more worth when you're blockcapped BECAUSE of the available items in the actual game. Their are plenty of places that can teach you what EH is so use google.

Define a better tank?
A 20k tank stacking BV would only be partially mitigating damage by whatever his block value is
I.e
Tank 1 20k HP and 1000bv - a 10k strike would become a 9k strike leaving the tank standing with 11k awaiting the next hit,
Tank 2 30k HP and 0BV - a 10k strike would still be a 10k strike and left with 20k hp

Tank 1 might have awesome threat in comparison to tank 2 due to the greater bv but its far more squishier.

Yes, i know that is a slightly exaggerate description as you would not have a tank with 30k hp and 0 bv.
BV is awesome for threat(DPS) and for multitanking, but general avoidance (Dodge/Parry) is better for keeping you alive, while stamina gives you the obvious buffer zone for bigger hits.

[Deleted]

Wrong.

Also a 20k tank can be better than a 30k tank depending on BV. But see, this and that are just ridiculous because items ingame do not reflect either. Stamina become much more worth when you're blockcapped BECAUSE of the available items in the actual game. Their are plenty of places that can teach you what EH is so use google.

How much does that "effective health" benefit in f.ex. Loken? Or Sarth 3D? Or any other similar magic-heavy damage? Let's see...magic is not affected by block..magic is not affected by parry...magic is not affected by dodge..See where this is going? That "effective health" is useless in magic damage fights, and there are VERY few melee only fights.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that there's 3 beneficial effects of gathering stamina; you get bigger health pool which also increases the range of Ardent Defender, you get more spellpower and thus you do more threat, and you get more spellpower and thus your Sacred Shield absorbs more. All three effects benefit you in all fights.

[Argarock]

Wrong.

Also a 20k tank can be better than a 30k tank depending on BV.

no.. just no

[Tyneside]

I'm at 31.5k unbuffed. With 102.4%.

Getting 102.4% is still your priority after 540 defense. Additional defense will help you reach this goal.

Stacking stam is ONLY to be done after you've got your 102.4, just like at L70.
No L80 tank with 102.4% is going to have health that low. In fact, some L70 tanks had almost 20k unbuffed at 102.4%.
I didn't say "no matter what." But it IS what you want to strive for; it IS what you want to shoot for after 540. It most definitely has priority over stacking stamina, stam stacking before 102.4 is just for boosting your e-peen.

Bottom line: if you were told you should stack stamina and ignore 102.4%, you were told WRONG. This is NOT RIGHT. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, but there is no point in being pig-headed. Also, update your "prot paladin faq" post, please. It's very misleading to hopeful new prot paladins.

That's not true. Getting to 102.4% is NOT the ultimate goal. While blocking every attack is nice, it's not mandatory by any stretch. Because there are no crushing blows, and because block values are relatively insignificant compared to some bosses attacks, there comes a point at which you balance. Pursuing both high HP and high avoidance is going to be the best route. No one said to ignore 102.4%. What people said was that Stamina is more reliable and more effective. It is, to a point.

[Iselian]

All in moderation. Make sure you have a good amount of dodge and parry, which should come on your gear as it increases (~20-25% dodge, 15-20% parry). Block will come on its own as well, and you should hit 102.4% without much trouble.

Stamina is a good thing to gem for, though you might find you need a +8def/+12stam to keep above 540, depending on your gear setup. At the high end of gear (in the current tier) you'll see 30k hp areas unbuffed. Mine is sitting around 28.5k, with a couple upgrades ahead of me. If you're at 25k, don't fret; you probably have a lot of 213 gear ahead of you.

If you're in the heroic raiding and you still don't see the great 30k, 33k health pools that others boast, that's fine. The content doesn't have strict requirements yet. Mostly, take what seems like an upgrade and you'll be fine.


Still looking for strict priorities? Uncrittable => Stam and Avoidance. That's just about it.

[Telant]

Iselian is right

Taking everything in moderation is the best way.
Def Cap is the priority, then work on what you want to do.. if its heroics then i wouldnt worry about it too much. Most stuff will do the job and its irrelevant what your overall avoidance is.

If its raiding then you will be naturally getting better gear boosting stam and defensive abilities. Stamina and Block are slightly 'cheaper' to get than the rest, but are still valuable.
There is value in having different tanking sets based on what you are doing so saying one stat is better than the other is maybe not the best way of putting it tbh.. especially since some people might not have the benefit of out gearing instances or running with great healers/dps.
Having a high Hp set, a threat set and an avoidance set is the best bet as they can all have their benefits at some point, this does however take time to get.

[mitchimitch]

and then put stam gems in every single slot. This is a terrible way to think.

i gemmed all stam and im still block capped (raid buffed) with no block rating (well 28 because of the neck)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...aul&n=Jethonis i gemmed hit in yellow slot just for fun and see how much threat i can pull.

comes out to about 28% dodge and 22% parry in raid. i get about 103% with hs.

the way blizz made the gear/talent there is NO reason to gear with block rating. Block cap will come as gear come. content is not hard enough to get block cap before stacking hp.

[mitchimitch]

you learn everyday dont you lol

ran the new macro, 96.66% unbuffed, will get a little over 100% after buff, 2.4% aint much (will come with ulduar anyway)