ArmPntr????

[Crazytrain]

Hi again after the improvement of my dps (with the hep all of you ^^) now i have other problem..before 3 days i rolled for
GRIM TOLL ,a very good trinket imo with armpntr chance -612 for 10secs and +83 hit ratin !! i had the trinket from Nexus hc all know what i mean..it is good too.. but i dont know if grim toll is really a improvement for me?? i checked the recount and i couldnt notice any real change ... i know that armpntr is almost useless for paladins cause most of their hits is holy dmg ... but when i see how is my ignorance at the mob when the trinket open is -52.85% armor :O i am really confused ... what ur opinion?? (sory again about my english )

[Luthius]

Hi again after the improvement of my dps (with the hep all of you ^^) now i have other problem..before 3 days i rolled for
GRIM TOLL ,a very good trinket imo with armpntr chance -612 for 10secs and +83 hit ratin !! i had the trinket from Nexus hc all know what i mean..it is good too.. but i dont know if grim toll is really a improvement for me?? i checked the recount and i couldnt notice any real change ... i know that armpntr is almost useless for paladins cause most of their hits is holy dmg ... but when i see how is my ignorance at the mob when the trinket open is -52.85% armor :O i am really confused ... what ur opinion?? (sory again about my english )

It's not the english that matters.. it's how you're typing :<

[Karadros]

As far as i know armour penetration really won't be much help when the majority of your damage is Holy and not physical. I don't know how much your autoattacks will benefit, mind you.

[cryogenic]

armor pen is a percentage reduction of a percentage and so is a tiny amount and then as ret you have another reduction of 60% as only about 40% of your attacks use it if that.
so if your fighting a boss with low armor to begin with the amount of damage increase from arp is pathetic.

[ScatteredBWL]

Armor Pen is flat out a bad stat for ret pallys if I could suggest a trinket I'm sure you have the MoT from badges gun from the Greatness deck. And if you have a chance at about 34% get a 2nd AP trinket to go with Greatness

[FoxyPala]

As far as i know CS and DS are mitigated by armor (if they are physical or holy damage i don't know), so ArmorPen is use full to 3 attacks from 5 at the moment after 3.1 it will be 3 attacks from 6.

ArmorPen is still more use full then hast where only auto gets it

[iktankniet]

As far as i know CS and DS are mitigated by armor (if they are physical or holy damage i don't know), so ArmorPen is use full to 3 attacks from 5 at the moment after 3.1 it will be 3 attacks from 6.

ArmorPen is still more use full then hast where only auto gets it

bad info is bad...

yes you are right for a part. BUT its a fact that CS and DS are a small part of the dmg you do. the biggest dmg dealers are seal, judgement, RV and concecration. these are holy attacks that cover 70% or more of the dmg done.

thats why you dont want to stack on arP. haste affects auto-attack. on every auto-attack you get SoB to proc. faster auto-attack is more procs of SoB. thats why i say haste is better then arP. although it isnt by much.

[FoxyPala]

Well you get more procs, but with ArmorPen the procs are bigger and SoB procs off DS as well. But probably the diference is realy small in damage

[iktankniet]

Well you get more procs, but with ArmorPen the procs are bigger and SoB procs off DS as well. But probably the diference is realy small in damage

SoB does not benefit from arP even if its a proc from DS. i dont know why you mention it because its not the point.

arP affects 3 attacks. auto-attack, CS and DS. they will do more dmg. auto attack is top3 dmg attack. CS and DS are around 5th and 6th with dmg done on a boss. on a bossfight there already are serveral arP buffs you get.

haste affects auto attack + SoB. auto attack and SoB are usually 2nd and 3rd dmg dealers in a boss fight. it stacks with buffs like Bloodlust/Heroism. with haste and BL/hero you might be able to come close to 1sec auto swing. that will increase dps more then buffing attacks that are on cooldown.

[FoxyPala]

Armor reduces damage from CS and DS, BoS procs off CS and DS as well as auto attack and is based off the damage done by the attack. So if ArmorPen increases by the attacks than BoS proc will be bigger. Or am i missing something ?

Would be interesting if i could convert the 400 haste rating i have to ArmorPen and see what the damage is then. Hast buffs would still increase the damage done.

[iktankniet]

Armor reduces damage from CS and DS, BoS procs off CS and DS as well as auto attack and is based off the damage done by the attack. So if ArmorPen increases by the attacks than BoS proc will be bigger. Or am i missing something ?

Would be interesting if i could convert the 400 haste rating i have to ArmorPen and see what the damage is then. Hast buffs would still increase the damage done.

SoB does not scale with arP because its a holy attack. holy ignores armor... Sob is not based of dmg done by an attack. idk where you got that info from but its insanely wrong.

[FoxyPala]

Hmm.. looks like i mixed in the backslash description in to damage done

[Crazytrain]

hmm..so i will w8 till 3.1 to see real changes..thanks guys maybe its time to go for the greatness one xD

[Maneken]

As far as i know armour penetration really won't be much help when the majority of your damage is Holy and not physical. I don't know how much your autoattacks will benefit, mind you.

That.

[Kosic]

I made a topic a while back asking how good T7.5 was compared to going for pure strength and ArP.

I used to run around with a passive amount of 21.8% of ArP, and with GrimToll it would proc and give me around 60% ArP.
I had tested it out (not fully down to the numbers, but down to average boss dps and overall dps). Then also tested out having T7.5 - 4set (which has lesser attack power compared to my ArP gear).

The dps difference was barely anything major, it would be close within the 1-400dps depending on how well the fight went.

For Ulduar, if no items actually gain much of a stat change to alowe paladins to have a better balance for stats which actually benifits them. I wouldn't be too worried in going for ArP again, or going into my full T8 (looking into getting 2/5 t8.5).
The only thing which would make ArP alittle better is having the two set bonus on T7.5 (10% more damage from DS).

List;

Melee;
Auto Swing
Crusader Strike
Divine Storm

Holy Damage;
Judgement of light/wisdom/justice
Consecration
Exorcism
Holy Wrath
Seal of Martyr/light/wisdom/righteous/commands etc.

3 out of 8 sources of damage would gain a benifit from ArP. But as most people say it's not worth getting ArP, because it's only a small % of abilities which gets this boost from it.

But mind you, with my 60% of Arp (when trinket procs) i was doing 6-7k Cs, and over 8k DS crits (during trash and sometimes bosses). But it was alittle rare to see those numbers from DS.

Edit;

With the new talent Sanctity Battle which gives us 15% more damage to CS, it will help increase the skills damage with higher ARP rating also.