Paladin Holy PvP Spec in 3.1?

[saffira123]

What does everyone think of this as the 3.1 holy pvp spec?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9722

I know that not having instant FoL/reduced HL hurts but you do not need to ever worry about mana and you still gain a redic amount of crit. Having HoF get out stuns and repent is hella nice too along with the 3% dmg bonus.

Would change couple points here or there depending on my partner however this is mainly with a lock.

[Jaromir]

HOLY MOTHER ! I just saw infusion of light got pushed back big time ... ???

[apokteino]

i'm plannin on going something like this for 2v2:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9722

i'll have to try it out and see though. still not sure about the 2 points in divinity i'll probably end up throwing the points in lights grace over into blessed life. either way i don't think this is as big a nerf as most ppl think and i actually think it's about a wash.

[Lyudan]

I was just asking myself if this template could work (BG/WG only, not currently planning to do Arena before getting more PvP stuff) :
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9733

I'm currently Prot spec for raid, I just have some blue items from heroics/quest rewards/reputations and 2-3 epics from Naxx 10.

Is this viable?

[trexxo]

holy paladins have been so OP whole this season, far too over representated and this nerf is welcomed by whole the pvp community. Maybe the nerf hurts for PvE, but you'll have to deal with it, just like PvPers have to deal with being nerfed because of PvE.

[Palatinus]

holy paladins have been so OP whole this season, far too over representated and this nerf is welcomed by whole the pvp community. Maybe the nerf hurts for PvE, but you'll have to deal with it, just like PvPers have to deal with being nerfed because of PvE.

Haha you created an account just to say that? Well two things:

Where were the nerfs when druids dominated for 3 seasons? BUT THATS OK THEY'RE DRUIDS NOT LOLADINS.

Just wait, if you think that the holy paladin ruined season 5 your in for a supprise. It isn't only the holy paladin that is dominating arena, how are dks and hunters doing? What is that healer that is able to keep up with the healer that has 'unlimited mana' but isn't getting anything changed, think it won't take over from paladins? Depending on the class you play, holy paladins may not be getting as nerfed as much as you think, they still have plea, seal of wisdom and have just gained a LOT of survivability and more spell power/haste from going down the holy tree instead of ret. You know the 18k holy lights? Well just wait until they become 20k holy lights with 11% more healing, and lets not talk about kings becoming baseline and added perks like aura mastery.

[Mur]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9733

I've never been that worried about stuns. They aren't that common and game defining, stoicism should be enough. If it isn't there are other tools to fall back on.

I think we'll be relying on crits less now, which is good, atm even though my holy shock as an absurd crit chance, I cant always rely on it.

[Fujiama]

The problem is with you guys that you probably haven't seen that JotW only gives you 25% of your BASE mana, not maximum mana. That means that all you probably can get that is usefull from this talent is replenishment, which imo isn't worth the 3 talent points.

[Palatinus]

The problem is with you guys that you probably haven't seen that JotW only gives you 25% of your BASE mana, not maximum mana. That means that all you probably can get that is usefull from this talent is replenishment, which imo isn't worth the 3 talent points.

The hybrid spec atm with infusion, only gives 15% back of base mana (which for me is roughly 3% max mana in pvp gear, and that is giving them almost unlimited mana....10% increase, even if it is base mana...is good.
The problem with the specs will be the lack of mobility in heals now, not mana. Never has mana been an issue with the hybrid spec.

[mikklas]

This is my take on the holy spec for 3.1 I would like to add though, that the 3 points in Sacred Cleansing might be moved when I've tested the effectiveness of it my myself in arena (I play ret atm).


http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...6&version=9733

[apokteino]

The problem is with you guys that you probably haven't seen that JotW only gives you 25% of your BASE mana, not maximum mana. That means that all you probably can get that is usefull from this talent is replenishment, which imo isn't worth the 3 talent points.

ummm, i've seen several ppl say this and i'm still a little confused. base mana @ 80 is 5779. lets say i am only able to judge 4 times in 1 min. 25% of my base mana x 4= 5779. also, assuming i'm able to keep replenishment up the entire time that ends up being another 2400 mana per minute (16k mana pool x .0025 x 60 secs). altogether this ends up being over 8k mana returned every minute for judging a target once every 15 seconds.

you will probably end up going way down into the ret tree to get divine purpose still and JoTW is on the tier right below it. well worth the 3 points imo. you won't get infusion so get AoW imo. plz let me know if i am missing something.

[Deleted]

Gonna try this probably

[trophy]

For 2v2 I would consider trying the new Holy/Ret spec, I liked the version with Fanaticism but over all you're going to be giving up a lot for basically Repentance.

I was planning on going deep holy and 19pts in prot. The new Divinity talent is pure awesome, Stoicism is fantastic, a 2nd hand of sacrifice is always helpful and all the great talents in holy are too much to give up.

We'll see. The build with Fanaticism has potential. That would be a ton of crit for judgement, 29% crit with talents alone (I'm pretty sure the Holy Power talent doesn't affect judgement, but if it does then 34% crit). So maybe with gear you could get 50% chance every 8 sec. to instant FOL. We also haven't factored in resilience which will make it a bit harder. So who knows, it could be good.

[lawladino]

just like PvPers have to deal with being nerfed because of PvE.

Uh lawl? I dont think that has ever happened.

[Palatinus]

For 2v2 I would consider trying the new Holy/Ret spec, I liked the version with Fanaticism but over all you're going to be giving up a lot for basically Repentance.

I was planning on going deep holy and 19pts in prot. The new Divinity talent is pure awesome, Stoicism is fantastic, a 2nd hand of sacrifice is always helpful and all the great talents in holy are too much to give up.

We'll see. The build with Fanaticism has potential. That would be a ton of crit for judgement, 29% crit with talents alone (I'm pretty sure the Holy Power talent doesn't affect judgement, but if it does then 34% crit). So maybe with gear you could get 50% chance every 8 sec. to instant FOL. We also haven't factored in resilience which will make it a bit harder. So who knows, it could be good.

The thing that annoys me is that both builds are okish. They both have massive downsides. Holy/Ret is excellent mana regen, a 1minute CC, and high amounts of crit. However it lacks in only having one instant heal or 1+ another one every 8 seconds. Holy/prot is good defensively, great healing, fast and instant heals but will lack mana regen, especially now divine plea is dispellable.
Shamans and druids will dominate season 6, and priest will survive down to being the best offensive healer. Paladins on the other hand have to either give up CC and mana regen or give up mobility and survivability.....when both druids and shamans dont. Something thats annoying me is that shamans can currently keep up with paladins in terms of mana, and fights with pala/x vs shaman/x can take a long time, especially at high ratings. However the holy paladin is the only one getting nerfed...makes sense. At least blizzard will find out that the paladin was only ever as good as his partner who will now turn to shamans, good luck to shamans when blizzard realises. Druids on the other will only continue to get stronger, anyone ready for a repeat of TBC? At least we now have ret to fall back on....or will we...

[modrn]

heres prolly what ill do.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...1&version=9733

Shit seems pretty good to me, just sucks not bein able to BoF out of stuns.. but they made it kinda difficult to have a good healing build and still have repentance and that. Without infusion of light u might as well not be holy IMO

[apokteino]

i'll probably end up running with something like this to start with. we'll see.

2s:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9733

3s & 5s:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...0&version=9733

[saffira123]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...5&version=9733

I am thinking this might be the next most viable 2v2 spec. It basically replaces IoL with AoW. You still maintain the infinite mana but its better now with the 10% increase. Mobility is thus very present and you can still CC as much with repent. Personally I dont think paladins were nerfed at all. They were just retuned to have the ability to actually play like they were in BC, a defensive hybrid healer.

[trophy]

The thing that annoys me is that both builds are okish. They both have massive downsides. Holy/Ret is excellent mana regen, a 1minute CC, and high amounts of crit. However it lacks in only having one instant heal or 1+ another one every 8 seconds. Holy/prot is good defensively, great healing, fast and instant heals but will lack mana regen, especially now divine plea is dispellable.
Shamans and druids will dominate season 6, and priest will survive down to being the best offensive healer. Paladins on the other hand have to either give up CC and mana regen or give up mobility and survivability.....when both druids and shamans dont. Something thats annoying me is that shamans can currently keep up with paladins in terms of mana, and fights with pala/x vs shaman/x can take a long time, especially at high ratings. However the holy paladin is the only one getting nerfed...makes sense. At least blizzard will find out that the paladin was only ever as good as his partner who will now turn to shamans, good luck to shamans when blizzard realises. Druids on the other will only continue to get stronger, anyone ready for a repeat of TBC? At least we now have ret to fall back on....or will we...

Whoa whoa. Slow down there. If you're basing all of arguments around 2v2, that is unreasonable. I've played both specs on PTR and can say that the Holy/Prot spec is quite good. If played well it's amazingly strong. The mana issues are probably not as detrimental as you might think. I've played plenty of 2s games where the replenishment wasn't as important as I expected it to be, it was Repentance that made it so good. I myself play Holy Pally Warlock. Repentance was very nice in that comp because trinketing never did much to avoid CC, the guy got feared all game and then hammered and then repentanced again etc. But as Holy/Prot I don't see the comp drastically changing in viability. Now he can dot everything and I won't get pissed! ;D

It seems like everyone here only cares about 2v2, which was where the Repentance spec shined. I can say with 100% certainty that Holy/Prot is going to be the better spec for 3v3 and 5v5, and hands down the best healer in both of those brackets. Whether Holy/Prot is better than Holy/Ret in 2v2 is up for discussion.

Without infusion of light u might as well not be holy IMO

^

[Palatinus]

Whoa whoa. Slow down there. If you're basing all of arguments around 2v2, that is unreasonable. I've played both specs on PTR and can say that the Holy/Prot spec is quite good. If played well it's amazingly strong. The mana issues are probably not as detrimental as you might think. I've played plenty of 2s games where the replenishment wasn't as important as I expected it to be, it was Repentance that made it so good. I myself play Holy Pally Warlock. Repentance was very nice in that comp because trinketing never did much to avoid CC, the guy got feared all game and then hammered and then repentanced again etc. But as Holy/Prot I don't see the comp drastically changing in viability. Now he can dot everything and I won't get pissed! ;D

It seems like everyone here only cares about 2v2, which was where the Repentance spec shined. I can say with 100% certainty that Holy/Prot is going to be the better spec for 3v3 and 5v5, and hands down the best healer in both of those brackets. Whether Holy/Prot is better than Holy/Ret in 2v2 is up for discussion.

Yeah i was talking about 2v2, should of said :P. I 100% agree, both in 3v3 and 5v5 holy/prot will be much much better, especially with up to 11% more healing. I just feel in 2s that an offensive healer is always better, or at least some sort of viable CC, hammer is ok depending on what you play with (i.e. any other class that stuns can cause DR). Probably need to move battlegroup, people only play 2v2 :, hardly many 3v3 teams and like 100 5v5 teams rofl, no one is even predicted to get the glad title in 5v5 haha.