Patch's slime

[karthaege]

Why do RLs still insist melee jump into the slime before the fight and not allow healers to aoe heal? This is misinformation at its worst.

Patchwerk hateful strikes the person with highest hp, who is not the MT, AND IS TOP 3 IN THREAT in melee range. In fact, the hateful strike ADDS to the tanks (plural) threat. All melee dps has to do is wait, oh, 4 seconds before moving in and the tanks should have more than enough threat if they have ever tanked before in their lives. From that point on, melee just needs to be below top 3 threat which shouldn't be at all hard with the OTs getting threat from hatefuls.

Seriously. Grrr

/endrant

[Wupday]

I dont think i ever get threat when taking hateful strikes oO but agree on the hp stuff nubs

[Psykel]

I haven't even heard about that strat before.
We just wait 5-10 secs before starting dps. Sure, sometimes an over zealous fury warrior or ret pally (hey, don't look at me) might go a bit too high and get one-shot, but we never have him splat the entire melee dps unless an OT dies.

[karthaege]

Yeah I was in a pug a group recently that told the melee to do that. I believe the idea comes from the flawed logic that he hits whomever has the highest hp in melee range who isn't main tanking him. I dunno. Just annoying to see people still saying that.

[Kepi]

just have them click off fort and your fine imo.

[Xs]

just have them click off fort and your fine imo.

Its not HP based, if you'd read the topic you'd understand that

[ichdurfte]

Yeah I was in a pug a group recently that told the melee to do that. I believe the idea comes from the flawed logic that he hits whomever has the highest hp in melee range who isn't main tanking him. I dunno. Just annoying to see people still saying that.

It's because the fight worked like this at level 60. You would "dip" as a melee during the fight because hatefuls were based on HP. Sounds like you got some old school players leading that raid. It really doesn't hurt, because they take no other damage, so not healing them doesn't matter anyways. It's just unnecessary and annoying at most. No real harm.

[Advent]

To be perfectly honest you shouldn't worry about dying unless an OT dies, which shouldn't happen unless your OTs geared and gemmed horribly and are taking every hateful coming their way, or your healers are sloppy/tired.

If you do happen to die because you were a trigger-happy mouth-breathing, knuckle dragger dps... it's your fault. >.>

[Ilfayt]

Yeah, it was actually this way when Naxx 25/10 came around, but only for a little while, they hotfixed it out(or maybe it was 3.03, meh who knows)

[Insomnium]

Rogue got killed while walking to him, stealthed, while the OT & MT where getting in positions, everyone laughed.

So... watch out!

[Splatter]

If you do happen to die because you were a trigger-happy mouth-breathing, knuckle dragger dps... it's your fault. >.>

Wotlk has made threat to trivial imo (i.e. people ignore threat like its a non issue) wtb fights where you actually have to take note of how much agro u are generating !

[DarkFerret]

I put VE up so dipping is pointless. > I hate getting in a group with some raid leader (that generally thinks he's Blizzard's gift to raid communities) that can't even be assed to stay updated on mechanics.

[thoukaia]

2 holy paladins, each one with a beacon on a hateful strike offtank, can touch the slime for a second to get the hp reduction, then heal each other for absolutely insane SA mana regen + at the same time healing the offtanks... too bad they removing SA for holy with 3.1 :*(

[archform]

i was the hateful strike offtank for patch once
excpet i was ret
and no one told me to be offtank
in the end i died 2 seconds after the fight started
damn judgement crit!

[Geckomayhem]

i was the hateful strike offtank for patch once
excpet i was ret
and no one told me to be offtank
in the end i died 2 seconds after the fight started
damn judgement crit!

I lol'd.

I was under the impression that he hateful striked (hatefully struck?) the person with the highest HP. If the OT had lower HP than a melee dps when he did the move (ie. not healed above the melee's hp) then he would HS the melee with the highest HP. It's been a while since I raided, but this is the first I've heard of it being based on threat and not HP. We often had melee get one-shot because their HP was higher than the OT at the wrong time.

If the mechanic is based on threat, then I agree: people shouldn't need to go dipping in the slime. It's probably from habit. I've seen melee get pwnt more times than I can count, so I just assumed it was HP dependent; seeing as they never got attacked if they slime-dipped - and yet they would get attacked if they didn't.

Still, been a long time since I saw someone die on Patch, so my memory is a little fuzzy.

[mmc]

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t31964-w...17/#post986314
Read the post after too.

[bujaberry]

A lot of raidleaders and ppl in general don't know the mechanics of patchwerk, thus the stupid and useless tactic.

[archform]

I lol'd.

I was under the impression that he hateful striked (hatefully struck?) the person with the highest HP. If the OT had lower HP than a melee dps when he did the move (ie. not healed above the melee's hp) then he would HS the melee with the highest HP. It's been a while since I raided, but this is the first I've heard of it being based on threat and not HP. We often had melee get one-shot because their HP was higher than the OT at the wrong time.

If the mechanic is based on threat, then I agree: people shouldn't need to go dipping in the slime. It's probably from habit. I've seen melee get pwnt more times than I can count, so I just assumed it was HP dependent; seeing as they never got attacked if they slime-dipped - and yet they would get attacked if they didn't.

Still, been a long time since I saw someone die on Patch, so my memory is a little fuzzy.

i think tis cause the MT pulled and well i guess the OT didnt make any threat yet so whos left

i think i attacked a lil early

[Surfd]

For 10 man you are going to want to do it if you are concerned with Undying. Most 10 mans are only going to have 2 tanks and if a healer slips or PW tries to gibb you a melee is going to die.

Umm, people run 10 man with more then 2 tanks? I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by this? I have been running 10 man naxx for months now, and never once have i seen patch even try to Gib a mele DPS unless the HS tank was dead.

Patch in 10 man will NEVER HS anyone who is not the hateful tank unless the hateful tank is already dead (or a Melee DPS pulled aggro off the HS tank).

People seem to have VERY wierd ideas how Patch selects targets for HS. Its pretty simple really.

notes
- the main tank will not take ANY hateful strikes until there are NO melee left in range to take them
- Patch COMPLETELY ignores your threat unless you are in melee range as far as HS goes.

10 man HS picks 1 target based on the following conditions:
- Range - Are you in melee range?
- Threat - Are you next in line on the threat meter after the Main Tank?

If both of these conditions are true, you are going to take the next HS.

25 man HS picks 2 targets, based on the following conditions:
- Range - Are you in Melee Range?
- Threat - are you Second OR Third in line after the Main Tank?
- HP - Do you have more HP then the other HS target.

If all 3 of these conditions are true, you are going to take the next HS.

(In 25 man, for example, MT, OT1, OT2, MDPS1)
As long as OT1 and OT2 are both alive and immediately after the MT on threat as Melee Range Targets, MDPS1 will NEVER take a HS, no matter HOW low your OT's health gets. Both OT's could drop into the 1000's of health due to sloppy heals, and Patch will still chose to gib one of the OT's first, before ever targeting MDPS1.

Now, if MDPS1, at any time, pulls ahead of one of the two OTs on threat, he is going to eat a HS and die instantly most likely.

Really, the only time i have ever heard of having melee slime dip is due to people trying really strange strats like 2 tanking (ie, 1 MT, 1 HS Tank) on 25 man, with the idea that if you heal up a Druid with 50 or 60k life fast enough, patch should never actually target the technical second HS tank (Random Melee DPS class with 20k life) because the hateful tank will never get to the point where they have less then 20k life and patch targets a DPS.

Another note, I can in all likelyhood tell you exactly what happened to that stealthed Rogue.

As soon as Patch is engaged, he is probably already looking for HS targets. He will HS whatever happens to be closest that is NOT the main tank, REGARDLESS of where you happen to be on his aggro table (because at that point, you are the ONLY thing in range. So as he walked by the Rogue, BAM, HS, because stealth is going to be meaningless when standing right next to a boss level mob that HAS to hit something due to mechanics.

You would see the same kind of behavior in the old 40 man naxx days when you tried to kite him around for a messy kill if he enraged (before they put in the instant wipe enrage mechanic). He would go through the Melee DPS like a hot knife through butter until his highest aggro target was a ranged class, then he would start chasing them, and if ANYTHING happened to be in melee range as he passed, he would HS it simply cause it was there, because he NEEDS a HS target, and at that point any single target in melee range would be fair game.

[HellBurn]

Just have a druide OT him. I've never seen a melee dps reach 45k hps..