RET - What to do with those missing talents points

[DaGhostDS]

"What to do with those missing talents points"? well for right now I only pve so I might just leave the 9 points (I take Divine Purpose for the times I eat a stun and cant every man for him self out of it) in protest of the lack of effort from the devs to make interesting talents in our secondary trees.

well with that 10 point we can use it for... hum off tanking adds with +5%parry, dodge.. but lol.. or wait we can off heal for 10 flash then sit down and cry because we are oom -_-
if they could change the damn crusade into a simple +6% to all type except beast (if you dont want druid QQ)

[Capta]

first off, i switch between holy and ret(dual spec is gonna be awesome), second - when I'm holy I do spec into ret for the free crits. if the free crits werent there I would spec prot for the survivability. I would put the points somewhere. You can't tell me theres nothing for ret in any of those trees. You can increase your UTILITY, which is probably blizzards goal. I'm willing to bet its not their aim to free up points to add new ones later so you can omglazerpewpewfaceroll. Pick up some healing, pick up some survivability, pick up something that benefits the raid as a whole and doesnt inflate your epeen when you look at a meter. Stop being bad.

edit - I'd also like to add I certainly wouldnt be complaining if they trimmed holy down without cutting my healing. That would be freakin nice.

I'm trying to decide if you are lying about playing ret or not because this seems pretty assinine. Sure thing there are some holy talents we could dump points into.. but we have 7,000 fucking mana that we already barely skate by with on fights with no aoe damage. I'd love to have the mana capacity of a moonkin or lazer shaman and be able to step back throw a ss and a holy light here and there, but the way our spec is designed I doubt that will ever be a possibility. Other than a clutch loh every now and then, ret doesn't have the capacity to play the half and half role in a raid.

[amk]

I was kind of hoping that Blizz was planning to add more talents to the Ret Tree, but that doesn't seem to be the case. We have heard no word about it, and yet we are likely within a few weeks of 3.1 launching.

Oh well, I play to print up the Talent Tree diagram and just use a Dartboard and Darts to plan my spec.

[Kawasaki.gdm]

There is alot of ways to make prot or holy talents more atractive to ret, without make it OP. But seams that blizzard dont wanna do this kind of thing.

Theres alot of sugestions on forums:

- buff judgements of the pure;
- buff Divinity;
- buff Guardian`s Favor;

Ive even saw a suggestion to buff ilumination, so after a crit with FoL/HL/HS besides normal effect will increase all dmg done by 1/2/3/4/5 percent for 10 sec.

So we sometimes have a benefict to cast those instant FoL, increasing our dmg for a few secs if we crit the heal.

[PaladinOfHolyness]

I'm trying to decide if you are lying about playing ret or not because this seems pretty assinine. Sure thing there are some holy talents we could dump points into.. but we have 7,000 fucking mana that we already barely skate by with on fights with no aoe damage. I'd love to have the mana capacity of a moonkin or lazer shaman and be able to step back throw a ss and a holy light here and there, but the way our spec is designed I doubt that will ever be a possibility. Other than a clutch loh every now and then, ret doesn't have the capacity to play the half and half role in a raid.

I'm gonna go ahead and call you horribads on your "waahhh mana" crying right now. Please tell me when you have ever ran oom. It's damn near impossible. I spam consecrate nearly non-stop with a less than 6k mana pool, and still have no issues. Not sure what youre doing different, maybe using command? Granted the regen from SoM will be nerfed slightly, but the mana return from JotW will be back up to ridiculous pre-release levels. anybody remember that? I do, and it was insane.

So basically what I'm saying is, I can run the rotation every other ret paladin runs - first come, first serve - throw in consecrate, spam DP and have enough mana to toss out some FoLs, cleanse, and shields - but you cant seem to throw out 1 of those without being oom for the rest of the fight? Sounds like you just solved your own dillema. Maybe you can take your new "extra" points and dump them into holy tree's divine intellect so you can manage to not go OOM. Hurray, theres your talents you need outside of ret.

[Jathro]

Swift Retribution + Aura Mastery = win?

Maybe someone on the ptr can say whether or not Aura Mastery is any good or not, but it seems like an easy way to drop 11 pts.

[PaladinOfHolyness]

There is alot of ways to make prot or holy talents more atractive to ret, without make it OP. But seams that blizzard dont wanna do this kind of thing.

Theres alot of sugestions on forums:

- buff judgements of the pure;
- buff Divinity;
- buff Guardian`s Favor;

Ive even saw a suggestion to buff ilumination, so after a crit with FoL/HL/HS besides normal effect will increase all dmg done by 1/2/3/4/5 percent for 10 sec.

So we sometimes have a benefict to cast those instant FoL, increasing our dmg for a few secs if we crit the heal.

you do have a benefit to casting FoL right now, its called healing. Shitty healing, but healing none-the-less. I'd love to see any kind of buff to any of this stuff, but this isnt what I'm saying - I'm saying THIS IS A FLAT OUT BUFF. It doesn't matter you dont have anywhere to put the new free points, you didn't lose any damage to get them - WTF are you guys complaining about? thats what I'm saying. You just got free points to put wherever you want, make use, quit complaining. Kings is baseline, pick up IMP might or something. grab up the talent that allows you to be healed for 5% more, get some avoidance, QUIT BITCHING is all Im saying. You just got buffed.

[iktankniet]

I'm gonna go ahead and call you horribads on your "waahhh mana" crying right now. Please tell me when you have ever ran oom. It's damn near impossible. I spam consecrate nearly non-stop with a less than 6k mana pool, and still have no issues. Not sure what youre doing different, maybe using command? Granted the regen from SoM will be nerfed slightly, but the mana return from JotW will be back up to ridiculous pre-release levels. anybody remember that? I do, and it was insane.

So basically what I'm saying is, I can run the rotation every other ret paladin runs - first come, first serve - throw in consecrate, spam DP and have enough mana to toss out some FoLs, cleanse, and shields - but you cant seem to throw out 1 of those without being oom for the rest of the fight? Sounds like you just solved your own dillema. Maybe you can take your new "extra" points and dump them into holy tree's divine intellect so you can manage to not go OOM. Hurray, theres your talents you need outside of ret.

if you want to heal other spec holy. if you want to dps go ret. ret's mana pool is not intended to heal others with. SS is only usable on 1 target in 3.1. dont know if thats what you mean by shielding ppl.

about divine int. that 15% extra int of base int is practically nothing. even when raidbuffed its not worth 5talent points imo.

feel free to spec into it, but i wont.

[PaladinOfHolyness]

Swift Retribution + Aura Mastery = win?

Maybe someone on the ptr can say whether or not Aura Mastery is any good or not, but it seems like an easy way to drop 11 pts.

if somebody on ptr reads this, also find out if it works with sanctified retribution pls. 3% more damage + 3% more haste every 2 mins would be awesome.

[iktankniet]

if somebody on ptr reads this, also find out if it works with sanctified retribution pls. 3% more damage + 3% more haste every 2 mins would be awesome.

it only works on the base aura effects. not secondary effects like +healing from devo or +dmg and haste from ret aura.

[PaladinOfHolyness]

if you want to heal other spec holy. if you want to dps go ret. ret's mana pool is not intended to heal others with. SS is only usable on 1 target in 3.1. dont know if thats what you mean by shielding ppl.

about divine int. that 15% extra int of base int is practically nothing. even when raidbuffed its not worth 5talent points imo.

feel free to spec into it, but i wont.

^Youre a paladin, not a mage or rogue. Youre still a hybrid. Theoretically, equally geared and skilled - a pure dps class will always out-dps you, by blizzards own mouth. What they cant do, is put a shield on 1 target, or heal 1 target. Thats cool you dont want to waste your points there - waste them somewhere else - you didn't lose anything to get them, just put them wherever you like. Where-ever you put them, you just got buffed. It's free.

it only works on the base aura effects. not secondary effects like +healing from devo or +dmg and haste from ret aura.

[Capta]

I'm gonna go ahead and call you horribads on your "waahhh mana" crying right now. Please tell me when you have ever ran oom. It's damn near impossible. I spam consecrate nearly non-stop with a less than 6k mana pool, and still have no issues. Not sure what youre doing different, maybe using command? Granted the regen from SoM will be nerfed slightly, but the mana return from JotW will be back up to ridiculous pre-release levels. anybody remember that? I do, and it was insane.

So basically what I'm saying is, I can run the rotation every other ret paladin runs - first come, first serve - throw in consecrate, spam DP and have enough mana to toss out some FoLs, cleanse, and shields - but you cant seem to throw out 1 of those without being oom for the rest of the fight? Sounds like you just solved your own dillema. Maybe you can take your new "extra" points and dump them into holy tree's divine intellect so you can manage to not go OOM. Hurray, theres your talents you need outside of ret.

Obviously you're just better than everyone else, because I'm not speaking for just myself. If your talking the content everyone has been farming for 4 months that is no way to determine your mana capacity. I doubt anyone has mana troubles now because shit dies so fast, but first 1 or 2 naxx clears mana was a huge issue and it will be in ulduar where we have to actually try. JotW seems overtuned atm, but we will have to wait and see if we are really swimming in mana on a real fight with no SA. If we are than maybe we have the opportunity to fill a role we havn't been able to do eficiently, but I doubt it.

[PaladinOfHolyness]

Obviously you're just better than everyone else, because I'm not speaking for just myself. If your talking the content everyone has been farming for 4 months that is no way to determine your mana capacity. I doubt anyone has mana troubles now because shit dies so fast, but first 1 or 2 naxx clears mana was a huge issue and it will be in ulduar where we have to actually try. JotW seems overtuned atm, but we will have to wait and see if we are really swimming in mana on a real fight with no SA. If we are than maybe we have the opportunity to fill a role we havn't been able to do eficiently, but I doubt it.

Well, I remember 25% JotW and it was ridiculous. Also, first couple weeks in new content is supposed to be rough, youre not underpowered because of it. But none of this has anything to do with the fact that you people are still in here bitching about free talent points. You have the same effect for less points, QQ. The tree was bloated, I'm glad its slimmed. Now they need to do the same to prot. I guarantee if prot pallies got the same effect for less points there wouldnt be any bitching.

[Kuthumii]

You have the same effect for less points, QQ. The tree was bloated, I'm glad its slimmed. Now they need to do the same to prot. I guarantee if prot pallies got the same effect for less points there wouldnt be any bitching.

The jury is out on if it is the same effect. Last numbers I saw we were still a tad below what we are now. That hopefully will change.

I for one like having the extra points to up my healing or other utility. Problem is, they didn't add much utility in to take. +healing or emo damage absorption. WTB more utility!

[Capta]

Well, I remember 25% JotW and it was ridiculous. Also, first couple weeks in new content is supposed to be rough, youre not underpowered because of it. But none of this has anything to do with the fact that you people are still in here bitching about free talent points. You have the same effect for less points, QQ. The tree was bloated, I'm glad its slimmed. Now they need to do the same to prot. I guarantee if prot pallies got the same effect for less points there wouldnt be any bitching.

First of all, /pray Ulduar isn't just going to be hard for 2 weeks.

Secondly yes things are supposed to be rough while learning... but that's when you have to perform your best. If we are going to be needed running around throwing heals half the time this is when we will need to it. So saying your mana may be limited while DPS'ing at first, but once it's farm content you will have the capacity needed to help heal is redundent because by then we won't need to help (if we were needed in the first place). And, trying to summarize everyone's frustration with the tree, is that we have like 14 points to throw around, but we are still very subpar on dps. Yes, it has been said hybrids are to be lower on dmg, a blue said 5% (and he will be forced to carry that to his grave hehe), and when my damage tops at 5500 but the warrior's and the shadowpriests top at 7000 there is a problem. The ret community wants to be given the chance to perform like other hybrids have been and they see the 14 extra points as an easy place to throw a cool talent and buff our asses.

Oh and the original JotW was 33% the current is 25%.

[amk]

WTF are you guys complaining about? thats what I'm saying. You just got free points to put wherever you want, make use, quit complaining. Kings is baseline, pick up IMP might or something. grab up the talent that allows you to be healed for 5% more, get some avoidance, QUIT BITCHING is all Im saying. You just got buffed.

Try to understand what it's like to have a spec that is underperforming in DPS for PvE, and then be faced with the prospect of having 11+ talent points to allocate outside of your tree which...


wait for..


DO NOT INCREASE YOUR DPS AT ALL!


Speccing into more avoidance, longer Hand of Freedom durations etc.. might be well and good for PvP builds, but it does nothing at all to fix our DPS problems.

If however Ret's were on target with PvE DPS, and had no other issues to deal with, then yes, you would be correct in saying that all those extra talent points are a 'buff'.

But Ret's are not on target with PvE DPS, and we still have all these extra points to waste which will not improve that situation.

[Azharok]

Try to understand what it's like to have a spec that is underperforming in DPS for PvE, and then be faced with the prospect of having 11+ talent points to allocate outside of your tree which...


wait for..


DO NOT INCREASE YOUR DPS AT ALL!


Speccing into more avoidance, longer Hand of Freedom durations etc.. might be well and good for PvP builds, but it does nothing at all to fix our DPS problems.

If however Ret's were on target with PvE DPS, and had no other issues to deal with, then yes, you would be correct in saying that all those extra talent points are a 'buff'.

But Ret's are not on target with PvE DPS, and we still have all these extra points to waste which will not improve that situation.

This man speaks the truth !

[Kuthumii]

First of all, /pray Ulduar isn't just going to be hard for 2 weeks.

Oh and the original JotW was 33% the current is 25%.

You and me both.

I think JotW might have been at 25% on one of the PTRs before Wrath launched. I can't remember though.

[Anduril]

Well, I remember 25% JotW and it was ridiculous. Also, first couple weeks in new content is supposed to be rough, youre not underpowered because of it. But none of this has anything to do with the fact that you people are still in here bitching about free talent points. You have the same effect for less points, QQ. The tree was bloated, I'm glad its slimmed. Now they need to do the same to prot. I guarantee if prot pallies got the same effect for less points there wouldnt be any bitching.

I call shinanegins on PaladinOfHolyness...

Post your armory link Noob... I am pretty sure you are full of crap.

[PaladinOfHolyness]

First of all, /pray Ulduar isn't just going to be hard for 2 weeks.

Secondly yes things are supposed to be rough while learning... but that's when you have to perform your best. If we are going to be needed running around throwing heals half the time this is when we will need to it. So saying your mana may be limited while DPS'ing at first, but once it's farm content you will have the capacity needed to help heal is redundent because by then we won't need to help (if we were needed in the first place). And, trying to summarize everyone's frustration with the tree, is that we have like 14 points to throw around, but we are still very subpar on dps. Yes, it has been said hybrids are to be lower on dmg, a blue said 5% (and he will be forced to carry that to his grave hehe), and when my damage tops at 5500 but the warrior's and the shadowpriests top at 7000 there is a problem. The ret community wants to be given the chance to perform like other hybrids have been and they see the 14 extra points as an easy place to throw a cool talent and buff our asses.

Oh and the original JotW was 33% the current is 25%.

its different if its a buff call in general, rather than just QQ about extra points, which is what most of this is coming off as. I agree we need some tweaks to damage, but honestly I'd prefer the utility more. Buffs to utility that is. GC has already said the 5% was just an off the top example of where they wanted to be and not a real number they were aiming for. In my opinion we shouldnt top meters per se - but we should be bringing something to the table nobody else does to make up for it. Thats where I feel buffs are needed. I was hoping the aura-mastery stacked with the new and improved auras...but according to one poster that doesnt happen. Im trying to get on the ptr to try out the new DG and tinker with it. I liked the old one a lot, AOE pain suppression as they called it. Long CD, took a hit in the meters, but it is a nice clutch move. Things like that are what I would like to see more of, not more 6 sec cd flat damage crap fests that put me to sleep.

and to anduril, no thx - I already got hate-spam on my DK from a theorycraft post. People actually rolled alts to troll me while I leveled him. I play my paladin too much. And honestly, you go OOM with a standard rotation? I dont think so.