Arthas battle

[Spurlij]

To be truly epic, how long do you want the battle against the ultimate boss of WotLK to be? I personally would love to see a truly epic battle, with phases upon phases with the only most elite of players being able to defeat him. Now I say this from a casuals point of view, I really think the hardcores deserve something to strive towards. Thoughts/comments?

[Slade]

"how long do you want the ultimate boss of WotLK to be?"

How 'bout 8 inches?

Joking aside, Blizz won't let it happen (making Arthas super elite that is)... too many casuals will get mad that they can't beat a game they payed for. That's their new policy on instances. My thinking is that it should be hard, like original Naxx, Kael'Thas, Lady Vasjh and M'uru were. I'm certain they'll give it the most epic feel to date, but I just dont see it being only playable by the best guilds. Blizz already said they won't repeat Sunwell's eliteness and difficulty. And they make a good argument about too few getting to see their best content.

However, I feel that creating too much casual and accessible content creates a state of inflation, where every Joe-Schmoe scrub on your server has top-end gear and guilds called "Azeroth Fun Friends" have completed every encounter with half the achievments. This depreciates the value of any gear or raid clearing.

That said, Blizzard's answer to this is "Hard Mode", which perhaps may be the best comprimise. Getting an uber achievment, cool title, and elite bonus loot may be enough to add that original value scale back in for the better guilds.

[Spurlij]

"how long do you want the ultimate boss of WotLK to be?"

How 'bout 8 inches?

Fixed it. Lol

[sharkee]

30 minute speech - 5 minute fight

[solaste]

As fun as a 20-30 minute might be, I'd hate learning that bitch.

[klheart]

30 minute speech - 5 minute fight

Yea just enough time to leave and get a sub sandwich ;D

[Iradain]

Biiit too early for this...

Please call again later.

beep beep beep

[archform]

To be truly epic, how long do you want the battle against the ultimate boss of WotLK to be? I personally would love to see a truly epic battle, with phases upon phases with the only most elite of players being able to defeat him. Now I say this from a casuals point of view, I really think the hardcores deserve something to strive towards. Thoughts/comments?

nooo
hardcore raiders get hard mode
*ppl who dont want hard challenges should go normal

whats the point of making a boss hard for everyone?

[ccbutch]

I don't think "casuals" should be entitled to beat him but the should at least get a shot at him. The problem with Sunwell was that you couldn't even try unless you were fully BT geared. If you didn't have the gear you ended up pugging runs to kill the first few mobs for a trash drop.

As long as casuals can make a little progress in Icecrown it should be fine. Let them go 5/9 like guilds did in BT. They might not get Arthas down or his fancy looking shield but they could at least get the atmosphere of the place and be proud of the fact that they are working on the hardest raid in the game. It shouldn't bother the "elite" guilds that much either as they know only the best get the cool looking shield or kick ass looking shoulders.

[Tikken]

To be truly epic, how long do you want the battle against the ultimate boss of WotLK to be? I personally would love to see a truly epic battle, with phases upon phases with the only most elite of players being able to defeat him. Now I say this from a casuals point of view, I really think the hardcores deserve something to strive towards. Thoughts/comments?

Instead of making it one super long (and imo, annoying) 20 min+ fight, you could fight Arthas multiple times throughout the instance. He doesn't have to be only the final boss. Perhaps you can fight him when you first zone in, defeat him in some way, and he retreats inside. Clear a few bosses like Mal'Ganis (or whoever fits in the lore), and then fight him again in a new way. Repeat a couple times and finally face him in some epic and not so long fight at the end of the instance.

The fight could be really epic, literally spanning the entire instance, but not all be condensed into one encounter where you can wipe in the 24th minute and have to start over.

[Megatwan]

long does not = epic

/gasp
...tell that to the alleged yogg-saron thread <http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=46749.0>

ill take this from here:

Phase 1
The raid enters Arthas's throne room while he is playing with is faction leader dolls ala' Spaceballs

Arthas: *Thrall voice* Now that the puny human is gone Jaina we no longer need to hide our love
Arthas: *Jaina voice* Oh Thrall but he was my first
Arthas *Lich Voice* Yeessssss Jaina and i will be your last, frostmourne hungers!

Arthas: Whhaa whats this, how dare you fools interrupt me during play time

Arthas will then cast rank 1 summon npc and get into a healthy debate with Kael discussing the effect global warming is having on Icecrown and why emissions caps should be placed on engineer made mounts and siege vehicles.

The raid will have 1 hour and 37 minutes to finishing buffing until Kael has to take a pee break.

[archform]

I don't think "casuals" should be entitled to beat him but the should at least get a shot at him. The problem with Sunwell was that you couldn't even try unless you were fully BT geared. If you didn't have the gear you ended up pugging runs to kill the first few mobs for a trash drop.

As long as casuals can make a little progress in Icecrown it should be fine. Let them go 5/9 like guilds did in BT. They might not get Arthas down or his fancy looking shield but they could at least get the atmosphere of the place and be proud of the fact that they are working on the hardest raid in the game. It shouldn't bother the "elite" guilds that much either as they know only the best get the cool looking shield or kick ass looking shoulders.

what is casual and what is hardcore raider?
skill dif?
amount of time you spend playing?
whos more serious?
what make a casual a casual and hardcore hardcore?

im kinda thinking time spent
which you shouldnt reward
only skill should be rewarded

[ccbutch]

what is casual and what is hardcore raider?
skill dif?
amount of time you spend playing?
whos more serious?
what make a casual a casual and hardcore hardcore?

im kinda thinking time spent
which you shouldnt reward
only skill should be rewarded

It's the reason I put casual and elite in quotes. Some people play all the time but suck, some people play rarely but are great. Some crappy players get into the progression guilds and see everything while some really good players prefer to stay in their small family guilds that never get any where. Separating everyone in casual vs hardcore is too broad of a statement but it seems to be the only one people use.

The point I was trying to make is that any guild that puts in the effort should at least be able to break into the raid and while they might not beat it they at least get a chance to try, unlike the Sunwell where you needed full t6 gear or the mass amounts of guilds that never got passed Kara and ZA not because of skill(though there were many) but because it's just a small group of people. Make bosses like Yogg-Saron and Arthas difficult so you have to have a really good group of people to beat them but don't intentionally lock out other guilds from the raid completely. Some guilds will progress and some won't but as long as each guild gets a chance to try the majority should be happy, even if it's just something akin to only killing a boss like loot reaver.

Of course even then you'll have people complaining that the content is too easy or too hard but such is the way.

[archform]

It's the reason I put casual and elite in quotes. Some people play all the time but suck, some people play rarely but are great. Some crappy players get into the progression guilds and see everything while some really good players prefer to stay in their small family guilds that never get any where. Separating everyone in casual vs hardcore is too broad of a statement but it seems to be the only one people use.

The point I was trying to make is that any guild that puts in the effort should at least be able to break into the raid and while they might not beat it they at least get a chance to try, unlike the Sunwell where you needed full t6 gear or the mass amounts of guilds that never got passed Kara and ZA not because of skill(though there were many) but because it's just a small group of people. Make bosses like Yogg-Saron and Arthas difficult so you have to have a really good group of people to beat them but don't intentionally lock out other guilds from the raid completely. Some guilds will progress and some won't but as long as each guild gets a chance to try the majority should be happy, even if it's just something akin to only killing a boss like loot reaver.

Of course even then you'll have people complaining that the content is too easy or too hard but such is the way.

I fit in playing alot but still suck
*i only suck cause i spent most of the time doing world pvp and i suck at lvling*
if only i had a lvl 80 on a server thats not 12 hours ahead of local time
*but damn was it nice having whole areas to myself to farm up*

*on topic
i think that it should be a 10min fight average

and it should be very hard but if on normal its super hard....then what is hard mode gonna be like?

[dino]

the point in making him hard is that it gives you a dimension of the character and on the otherhand it won't let WOW look like a cheap saturday morning cartoon and hence become the laughing stick of the MMOG genre.

Arthas should be ridicilously hard!

What is the effin deal with people whining about not seeing enough content? Work on it then, if you don't want to spend time with an MMOG then where is the point in playing one? Go for a random singleplayer game then. There it isn't promised that you can finish it. People need to grow up and face the reality - It's pretty sad Blizz gives in to every demand about making certain bosses easier - It destroys the atmosphere and the whole experience.

I'm a casual player myself and if I put effort in a certain raid I want to be proud in the end and not live with the fact that I was only able to beat a boss after they dumbed it down so every hobo with sword can kill it.

How long should the battle be? 2-3 hours. Around there we could remotely think of the word epic, but encounters which take like 15-20min are just a bad joke and add nothing to the value of the game.

[Relentles]

How long should the battle be? 2-3 hours. Around there we could remotely think of the word epic, but encounters which take like 15-20min are just a bad joke and add nothing to the value of the game.

2-3 hours??
and you call yourself a casual player?
i call my self a casual player and i cant spare 2-3 on ONE boss fight in a night, i have better things to go do
how long do you think hardcore player should be spending doing this?

[Tuxxador]

with the only most elite of players being able to defeat him. Now I say this from a casuals point of view, I really think the hardcores deserve something to strive towards. Thoughts/comments?

Blizzard wants everybody to kill the ,,King'' the dude whos scares everyone,u see him everywhere on the expansion box,in the expansion title,in many quests,in dk starting quests.I dont mean it should be easy,but i think everybody will be able to kill Arthas (with some effort ofc).
Was Illidan sooo hard?I see many threads with the hardest bosses and noone mentions Illidan.

[archform]

2-3 hours??
and you call yourself a casual player?
i call my self a casual player and i cant spare 2-3 on ONE boss fight in a night, i have better things to go do
how long do you think hardcore player should be spending doing this?

ive spent 7 hours clearing naxx out with a pugg group
worst part is only one person out of 25 had to leave cause it was getting late for them

[Argarock]

Arthas should be a world boss^^ He rides sindragosa and lays waste to dalaran! ... And everything else! ;D

[Pzyclopz]

It's not the "ultimate" battle.
If you've read lore you would know that the real badass is Sargeras, who's currently trapped in the void.

But I'd still like it to be epic in proportions, but I'd say max 10 minutes, and 4-5 phases (I love bosses with phases).