Ghoul math, help a brutha out

[defdef]

Ok so I am trying to figure out how much STR a ghoul gets from his DK after glyph and talent.

Glyph:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43549
Your ghoul receives and additional 40% of your Strength and 40% of your Stamina

Talent:
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=49572
Increases your total Strength by 3% and the contribution your Ghoul gets from your Strength and Stamina by 60%

So, first off how much baseline STR and STA does a ghoul get from his DK's stats? Is it a flat percent, like 75% of DK's STR and STA? If so, what happens when we add in this glyph and talent? What is the final number?

Thanks guys

[Kaspar]

My ghoul has 2x the strength that I have.

[Baabinator]

And to add to that!

Would Impurity increase the Ghoul as well?

Since your ghoul is a summon spell, gaining from your AP (thus also strength)

[Kaspar]

I dont think Impurity adds to the ghoul's AP.

But it doesnt matter, my ghoul has ridiculous amounts of str and AP and it's dps barely goes up.

[Bullshifter]

I dont think Impurity adds to the ghoul's AP.

But it doesnt matter, my ghoul has ridiculous amounts of str and AP and it's dps barely goes up.

Correct that Impurity doesn't add to the ghoul's AP.

But incorrect that it barely goes up. My ghoul does around 300-350 dps when I'm running around solo. That's at about 3700ap (1300'ish strength) with HoW. In raids it does somehwere more in the 550-600 dps range at around 5k baseline raid buffed AP(1450'ish strength). A pretty decent improvement I'd say. And it benefits from haste to some degree, which will also be better after 3.1

[Talamare]

It gets affect twice by Icy Talons and Horn of Winter

Also ask the pally to give you and it Kings for a huge increase

[Fangarn]

ghoul facts:

-base ap of 1170 base strength 330
-100% of personal haste goes to the ghoul too (at some cases double dips)
-temporary buffs at dk (fc etc.) benefit ghoul
-1 str equals 1 ap (what a pity)
-no benefit from dk ap
-ghoul benefits from temporary ap buff (abo might f.e.)
-14 ap equals 1 dps

formula:

Ghoul str = DK str * (0.7 + RD + 0.4) (third summand is the glyph; RD ravenous dead = 0.6)
Ghoul ap = Ghoul str - base str + base ap

as a rough rule of thumb in a raid setting expect for every 5 str 1dps increase for the ghoul

>Edit: see my 2nd post in this thread for clarification

[Talamare]

Im pretty sure it gets 1ap from agility as well

[defdef]

ghoul facts:

-base ap of 1170 base strength 330
-100% of personal haste goes to the ghoul too (at some cases double dips)
-temporary buffs at dk (fc etc.) benefit ghoul
-1 str equals 1 ap (what a pity)
-no benefit from dk ap
-ghoul benefits from temporary ap buff (abo might f.e.)
-14 ap equals 1 dps

formula:

Ghoul str = DK str * (0.7 + RD + 0.4) (third summand is the glyph; RD ravenous dead = 0.6)
Ghoul ap = Ghoul str - base str + base ap

as a rough rule of thumb in a raid setting expect for every 5 str 1dps increase for the ghoul

Thank you this is EXACTLY what I was looking for, and no one seemed to have it. You're a gentleman and a scholar.

[defdef]

Im pretty sure it gets 1ap from agility as well

Wait, is this true? That throws off my numbers if so.

[neroxer]

i donno if anyone is reading this still but dude i have 1355 unbuffed str... soon to be more when i get my bsing sockets.. 17/0/54 unholy... my ghoul does 248.9 dps.. my question is how the f* does your ghoul do that much dps with 1300 after HoW.. in 25 mans i have about 1719 str i believe and my ghoul only jumps up to MAYBE 401 dps .. that's the highest i've seen him (this is white dps on the ghoul page, maybe you're talking about recount dmg) i donno..

[Bullshifter]

i donno if anyone is reading this still but dude i have 1355 unbuffed str... soon to be more when i get my bsing sockets.. 17/0/54 unholy... my ghoul does 248.9 dps.. my question is how the f* does your ghoul do that much dps with 1300 after HoW.. in 25 mans i have about 1719 str i believe and my ghoul only jumps up to MAYBE 401 dps .. that's the highest i've seen him (this is white dps on the ghoul page, maybe you're talking about recount dmg) i donno..

Of course it's recount damage, which includes Claw.

[neroxer]

i think i just suck lol with my HoW up and 1519 str while doing dailies my ghoul only performed at like 336 dps on recount =/ not happy lol...

[neroxer]

i believe that formula is off. when i use horn of winter on myself it's 155 str + talents = 164 str and my ghoul is only getting 249 str out of it BUT 164 * 1.7 should be 278.8

for side information i have both glyph and ravenous dead

also as part of the experiment i cast horn of winter so the ghoul had it, then clicked mine off and checked resulting values...


oh and also i'm editing this to add this, according to the 1.7 modifier of my total str my ghoul is missing about 243 unbuffed str! (when adding in the ghoul's base str, which i'm not sure 330 is correct since 1.7 seems to be off)

the discrepancy just seems to get larger the more str i have after horn of winter and the same values my ghoul ends up missing 273 of my str though you could tell that just by adding in what i originally said

[defdef]

Bummer, and here I thought we had an answer to this question.

[Fangarn]

sry guys had a mistake in the formula, writing error
ravenous dead is a multiplyer for the base conversion
ghoul gets 0,7 of ur str as base with ra its 0,7*1,6 = 1,12 with the glyph (0,4) its 1,52

the corrected everything:
ghoul facts:

-base ap of 1170 base strength 330
-100% of personal haste goes to the ghoul too (at some cases double dips)
-temporary buffs at dk (fc etc.) benefit ghoul
-1 str equals 1 ap (what a pity)
-no benefit from dk ap
-ghoul benefits from temporary ap buff (abo might f.e.)
-14 ap equals 1 dps
-agi of the dk does not benefit ghoul, agi buffs benefit ghoul 1 agi -> 1 ap
-83 agi -> 1% crit

formula:

Ghoul str = DK str * (0.7 * RD + 0.4) = 1,52 (third summand is the glyph; RD ravenous dead = 1.6)
Ghoul ap = Ghoul str - base str + base ap

as a rough rule of thumb in a raid setting expect for every 5 str 1dps increase for the ghoul

PS: tested this on the ptr works out fine

[Talamare]

k fresh off the ptr, with my self forcing exactly 1,000 str (came out 1001 damn!) and 181 agi 886stam

Ghoul has - 1031str(331+700), 856agi, 626stam(361+265), and 1867ap...... 70% base from str
HoW ghoul only - 1186str, 1011agi, 626stam, 2177ap............ His AP grew by 310, which is the 155 increase to str and agi
HoW ghoul both - 1295str, 1011agi, 626stam, 2286ap........... His str/ap grew by 109 which comfirms the 70% base str

Adding Ravenous Dead - my new personal str becomes 1030 from the personal 3% increase

Ghoul has - 1484str(331+1153), 856agi, 786stam(361+425), and 2320ap..... hes now getting 112% from str
HoW ghoul only - 1639, 1011, 786 and 2630... 310 increase again
HoW ghoul both - 1818, 1011, 786 and 2809... str/ap grew by 179 which is 115% from str

Adding glyph and raven...

Ghoul has - 1896(331+1565), 856, 1140(361+779), and 2732ap.... 152% from str
HoW ghoul - 2051, 1011, 3042ap
How ghoul b - 2294str, 3285ap

basically... he gets 1ap from agi

Haste -
Base 2.0
Icy Talons 20% master only - 2.0 <--- this might have had trouble refreshing
Icy Talons 5% haste - 1.91 <---- HORRIBLY slow to refresh, took like 5mins i swear
Icy Talons 20% ghoul only - 1.67
Icy T 20% + 5% ghoul - 1.59
IT 20% both + 5% - 1.32


Im going to do these test with a piece which is gives me 83 rating (3.29%)
Armor + 5% Haste - 1.84
Armor + 20% ghoul + 5% - 1.54
Armor + 20% both + 5% - 1.28

[Talamare]

oh and base ap is negative 20

[Fangarn]

plx check again the base ap and the agi thing cos my test showed there is a base ap and that agi does nothing for the ghoul

[Bullshifter]

Wow, I'd like more info on that Talamare, because I have never seen any reports indicating that agility does anything for the ghoul. If that were the case, we have possibly been undervaluing Agility to a degree.