This changes everything....are we really ez-mode GC?(eu forums)

[Nece]

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....65149839&sid=1

At the same time, these EZMode damage abilities are just that.

Damage abilities.

Divine Storm
Crusader Strike
Judgement

and to some extent, Consecretion.

These abilities, are on demand damage. They require melee range, or close to, divine storm being 8 yards, and judgement 10 yards.

They do, damage. Judgement is the only other ability that applys some form of debuff (or buff if you will). That said, our "main" PvP judgement, has been nerfed to class specific whines. Example being Justace, first this non movement impairing abilitie (I.E - Not a snare) got changed to be removed by the standard PvP trinket due to a specific class whining about it. This was not enough and the same judgement got a redesign in the holy tree and is no longer effected by Enlightened Judgements. Since we are speaking PvP, this is the main ability for that, thus reducing it's range back into melee zone or there-abouts.

So, once more as I already stated, our abilities that dish out damage, only dish out damage.

Now we can take a look at other classes

Warrior - Mortal Strike.

An "On-Demand" ability, that not only functions as damage it provides PvP utility as well. While Physical, this on demand damage is quite capable of dealing high numbers.

Whirlwind - Another "On-Demand" damage ability. A simular version of our Divine storm.

You could argue that warrior needs a certain stance, I see this point as moot since that this was the general mechanics behind a warrior. Warriors have gap closers, snares, healing debuffs, minor stuns, good sustained and decent burst. They have unique abilities that require timing such as overpower or "on next melee" such as Heroic strike, but also have the option to spam on demand. Rage is not an issue since yes, warriors can only do this if they have rage, paladins can only do things if they have mana. While opposite in starting full or empty, the difference being, once a paladin is empty it is far harder to regain APM as fast as what an empty warrior would.

Mage - Arcane barrage

An "On-Demand" ability, the difference being, unlike a paladin, this can be cast at 30yard range. It also has a 3 second cooldown, half that of our shortest cooldown.

Mages not only have on demand abilities, they have thier burst, one of the best silences in the game, decent crowd control, very good escape mechanics, immunities (While not to the same extent as bubble, you can place it under the same catagory) stuns, snares, sustained, range and instants. While they also have cast times, alot of thier abilities or nukes are limited to a cooldown.

Deathknight - Death Coil

Once more, another on demand ability which is very simular to our Excorcism which got a recent nerf. This is a high range, high damage ability which can be used at either a 1 second or standard 1.5 second GCD.

Deathknights being a simular class to paladin (Plate melee) also have alot of on demand abilities, that all do a fair amount of damage. You may argue you need diseases up, but at the end of the day, they do high damage with or without diseases. Deathknights also have access to not only more melee abilities, they have more ranged, a viable interupt, self healing to a greater extent than paladins (Deals damage while healing) a silence, a snare, a gap closer, a pet, a pet stun, immunities, DoTs as well as on demand damage and sustained.

I could go on and give you a list for every single class that has "On demand" abilities. I am in no way saying paladins are weak, the difference being from us and other classes are, we only have on-demand damage.

Do you think this makes us easier to play? or harder?.

A classes limited to nukes and only nukes with no PvP utility, compaired to 9 other classes who all have on demand nukes, but also sitiuational abilities that can decide the outcome of a fight if chosen to use. All other classes have one or more of the following

Snare
Silence
Gap closer
Healing debuff
crowd control

Not only do they have one or more of the above, they all have

On demand
Sustained
Non-cooldown abilities (Steadyshot, shadowbolt, frostbolt, Heroic strike, Deathcoil, Holy fire, Lightning bolt, wrath, Sinister strike, or depending on spec you can mix/match to like hemo/mutilate etc)

What non cooldown ability that is on demand does a paladin have?
Dispite a 60 second stun (non talented) what viable interupt, does a paladin have?
What snare does a paladin have?

He states that paladins have on demand abilities that you can just press and it instagibs someone. However, paladins are the ONLY class who doesn't have an ON DEMAND ability with NO COOLDOWN. Unlike every single other class out there.

You state how it's easier to press these buttons. It isn't easier, it is because we have no other choice.

If you gave a paladin all the utility that other classes have, do you think they would be pressing JUST the on demand abilities?

Oh look, someone is healing, I can

1)Hit them with Divine storm and hope they die
2))Hit them with Crusader strike and hope they die
3))Hit them with Judgement and hope they die
4) Stun them and
i) Hope they don't trinket and repeat 1-3
ii) Watch them trinket, heal up while we repeat 1-3

A paladin is centered around burst. A paladin has nothing BUT burst, because you refuse to give us nothing BUT burst. You want to increase our sustained, but then give us more burst and hotfix within a week.

Anyone can press buttons. It is what choice of buttons you get to press is what decide the outcome of a battle. The choices that paladins are limited to is purely On-Demand cooldown abilities.

This needs to be fixed, not only for the other classes who are poor geared and get beaten down within a couple of GCDs because by thier fault they haven't geared up, but also for the Paladins who can have a choice of abilities to use when required. If you are going to keep us as a burst class then our burst needs to increase as other classes gear and survivability increases, or you need to remove us from being a burst class while giving us decent damage but more interactivity allowing us to press more buttons with the utility required.

[Profyrion]

I have no idea what's going on here.

[diseous]

I have no idea what's going on here.

^^

[awake283]

No one cares about ret paladins.

[Rifter]

So what you're tryin to say basically is....?

QQ

[CSJenova]

When your post insinuates some level of context, as in saying "This changes everything...", it is usually a good idea to reference what your talking about...

Is this in response to a blue post? A forum question? Something your guild leader told you? The miles of text doesn't help much...but wtf are you even talking about?

[Separate]

Puberty was less confusing than your first sentance.

[Nece]

People were saying that we were a 1,2,3 button class. Mash those buttons..something happens..do other classes not work..I shoulda just link the eu forums post. Nightshift sucks to make any sense during the day

[Xs]

Wall of QQ crits you for 9001.

[Elektrik]

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[mote]

Sadly, there is no point of making any kind of posts even if they are correct as you will just get shot down from pre-teen kids whos balls haven't dropped. 2% of the forum readers here actually read posts before replying to them. The other 98%? QQ, 9000, lol, ^ ^.

It's really sad.

[Korgak]

i have a hard time to see any time soon any healing able class getting MS effect on their ability's

So far the only classes that got it cant heal them self aka warrior,rogues and hunters.
well troll priests got a 20% curse i think but noting game breaking rely.

but I rely think we can ones and for all drop the suggestion of a such strong self healing class as paladins getting a ms effect ever with out going over the top.
and it simply just dos not fit lore wise.

maybe add a kick but then again seems pretty imba to first stun one cast wile kicking the one after the long stun while having full nuke on the target under the full time. but then again this is a team play game let your compadre do the interrupts.

[Plaguedog519]

Ugh, more PvP whining. Seriously, if you want a warrior, roll a warrior. Paladins have things that Warriors don't and vice versa. I swear PvP whiners just want a game where there is only one class with 8 different names attached to it.

[Nece]

Lol you were probably one of the ones qq'n bout exorcism. I will remake this post. Europeans obviously got it...Blue Response...maybe the title..are we ez mode and then explaining why we arent isnt enough...

This changes everything meaning..something new..a better explanation than most posts of..why we are not so OP.

are we really ez-mode - explaining..well..are we really any different from any other class and what if everyone played like a top pvp'r(not saying I am)

[Litenith]

Puberty was less confusing than your first sentance.

rofl

[rabbimojo]

I think the OP is:
-trying to point out some hypocrisy in the exorcism nerf (and in general, ret pally nerfs due to high burst)
-trying to argue that paladins are harder because they only have whack-a-mole mechanics?

point 1:
It isn't really hypocritical. It really looks it, but Blizz has been trying to switch to a 'fix what we can, when we can' model. IE, exorcism is an easy fix, it can be fixed right now. DK aren't doing any better in arena than ret, lately (and arguably ret is higher, though I haven't checked SK today), so they aren't a good class to point out as being op.

My impression is basically that Blizz wants to get higher turnover on ret changes when they can, because they've failed the spec for so long. *shrug*

Also, my DK isn't 80 yet, but as far as I can tell exorcism hits about twice as hard as death coil. If I talented heavily for death coil I could probably get it in range, but considering it's basically baseline, and buffed by your T8..

point 2:
"It isn't easier, it is because we have no other choice. "
It is easier. It may be -less effective-, thus making -arena- harder for you. But your gameplay is simple.

Part of what's going on here is that many paladins don't realize that for many years now, paladins have been -designed as- an easy class. They're meant to be straightforward. It's only recently that the devs've pushed a bit on prot and holy to make them more involved, but you can still ignore a lot of mechanics. It's still primarily just 'hit what's up' for prot, and holy can still spam HL/FoL and do ok.

This is by design. Blizzard wants to have classes with a very high skill cap so exceptional players have a lot of meat in their characters. They also want to design classes that have a low skill cap, so that less exceptional players can still be effective and have fun.

When one type of player finds themselves on the wrong style? QQ results.

Blizzard seems to be acknowledging lately, by discussing the deepening of ret pally mechanics, that the vocal community at large doesn't really want flat, simple mechanics like ret pallies have. They want to make the spec useful without making it OP, meaning basically that you have to make it skillful.

IE, I imagine their goals on the dev drawing board are something like:
Sustained dps as a % of some hypothetical 'purist' average:
95%: Perfect ret pally play
80-85%: Single-minded ret pally play, like we have now.
Thus, you can bring a ret pally who is not able to fully understand deeper mechanics, but they can still do ok. And, your more skillful players who accidentally ended up in a ret pally (or chose it for lore reasons) can continue to strut their stuff. And as always, dpsers who understand how to maximize personal uptime (rogues KSing/Closing boss mechanics, etc) will have even more superior dps.
This is probably true of most classes at this point, but ret pallies right now are like.. identical, between perfect and whackamole.

Quick anecdote: We had a holydin in our guild spec'd ret and set up a /castrandom macro of every dps spell a ret pally uses, including AW. One button. They spammed it all night in Naxx, and achieved about 95% of our full-time ret pally. The full-time ret is a bit better geared, but at this point a lot of our raiders have 2 or 3 full sets of BIS-like gear. Just kind of amusing.

</ramble>

[Profyrion]

Lol you were probably one of the ones qq'n bout exorcism. I will remake this post. Europeans obviously got it...Blue Response...maybe the title..are we ez mode and then explaining why we arent isnt enough...

This changes everything meaning..something new..a better explanation than most posts of..why we are not so OP.

are we really ez-mode - explaining..well..are we really any different from any other class and what if everyone played like a top pvp'r(not saying I am)

OK... what? :-X

[Krypt]

Bubble, HoP, Heals.

[Nece]

Ugh, more PvP whining. Seriously, if you want a warrior, roll a warrior. Paladins have things that Warriors don't and vice versa. I swear PvP whiners just want a game where there is only one class with 8 different names attached to it.

Did you not see ( blah blah blah eu forums) seem more explaining of why other classes shouldnt whine and dine. Hell while I am playing ret...which btw since bc i have I am also rerolling UD mage(hate BE mages), UD lock and shaman. Soon people are gonna whine about mages in frost once people start figuring out how to play them. Same qq will go there.

[vilebio]

This failed the second Mortal Strike and Death Coil were referred to as "On Demand".

MS requires Rage, DC requires Runic. Unlike Paladins, we don't start with 100% of the "fuel" for our abilities.

This post was honestly, quite horrible.