My response to those supporting "easy mode" nerfs.

[Illojim]

Except they still don't have a free ride. Maybe they do up to Kologarn/Council but not past that.

And why does it even matter?

[Thellais]

The point is that you haven't even done the easymodes and you're complaining that they're becoming easier. They're not easy, at all. I'd imagine that a very, very small portion of people have even seen Yogg Saron.

Also, why don't you care about hard modes? If you want a challenge for your progression, you have it there. You can't even see all of the material unless you do hard modes (Algalon).

We dont care about hard modes because we arent that kind of group, we are just going along, seeing where we get each week. We dont have the resources or the time to dedicate to really pushing the hard modes, especially not at this time. So seeing as how this is all we can do atm, we wanted the challenge. Yes, these encounters are quite difficult, and by far the most difficult progression raid since BT/Sunwell days. Hard modes are designed for a different kind of raider than the normal modes, they go beyond what is normally required of your group, and normally require lots of work, time and resources put into them. However, for those who dont fit that mold, such as myself, we have the normal mode, and its disheartening to see the content being reduced in the difficulty.

[Vallos]

While I understand that you don't want an easymode raid, I still think that you should get all the way through it before you judge it. You will be wiping on Auriaya for 4-5 hours the first time, and Mimiron will take a few weeks. They're both pretty easy in 10man, but 25man, even easy mode, they're some of the hardest encounters yet. Don't judge it based on Flame Lootathon and Razorscale. They're the freebies.

[Geckomayhem]

Even with these "nerfs" (read: balanced changes), how can someone judge the state of "easy-mode" when they haven't even done the fights pre-change? How do you know that anyone will be able to just "waltz in and get free epix"? It won't be the case. Ulduar will still be a challenge; and reaching Yogg-Saron will be nigh on impossible in a pug, regardless of how many times Blizzard scale down any of the other boss fights.

Just enjoy what you manage to successfully finish. There will always be a sense of achievement when taking down a boss, whether it be "hardmode" or without engaging more difficulty. But that sense of achievement is up to you as an individual. You don't like the changes and think that "easymode" will no longer pose a challenge? Quit playing and go take up tennis or something. And stop posting to these forums while you're at it.

[Thellais]

Well, our first week in there we cleared up to the keepers (actually killing all the bosses, not skipping the optional ones), and probably could have killed Hodir had we not run out of time. And this is now just our 2nd week in there, and already whereas it took us two raid nights to kill the first 7 bosses, we killed them all the first night this week, and have that much more time to work on the keepers. We could deffinetly tell that the difficulty level had been reduced and even then, the only bosses that were one shots were Auriaya (that pull sucks hard core) and XT when our healer got light bombed right into a tantrum (which apparently still happens). Look, I know im not done with the place yet, and Im not going to give it an overall grade at this point, however, just from the limited exposure that ive had at this point, it seems like these nerfs were not necessary at this time.

[Lafteroth]

All I have to say to this is those of us that actually do the content when it's unbelievably hard... We feel it's unfair. And to be completely honest, it is!

Kovastin is my main, go armory this if you don't believe me. Elune server, Hybrid Guild. Look for the achievements.

Hybrid beat it's frigg'n head into the wall of 10-man Ignis. This is when he had 19 million hit points and had a bug to sometimes melee people when he tosses them into the slag pot (AKA, he auto-killed you). We learned. We adapted. We had a discipline priest shield whoever he was going for and if he went after me (I was the only melee) I popped my ankh or got a battle rez. Surprise! 20 attempts ending with a nine minute boss fight, Ignis lies dead.

Nobody else on the entire server had killed Ignis yet on 10-man. We were basking in a server first that would likely stay that way until the bug got fixed.

Negative. Ignis gets nerfed. Hard. He hit for less (albeit faster, but still, bigger hits are usually the scarier thing), his adds came less frequently, the scorch did a fraction of what it used to, and he was dropped 14 million hit points, leaving him with five million.

... Guilds can do him in their sleep now. We fought tooth and nail for something actually impressive and now we'll never get to do it again, nor will we get to feel proud about it. Our guild was ranked fourth to sixth (server wide, of course) on several websites but as soon as they adjusted for the nerf, we drop substantially.

No, we don't live on the game. No, we don't eat, sleep, and breath WoW. It's just a hobby for us and we want to enjoy it which involves overcoming the most painful of obstacles.

Nerfing easy mode takes away from the semi-casual semi-hardcore players that actually win the race over the nerds that dream of WoW and the elitist min-max guilds that won't let you join their ranks if you don't have the BIS gear for the specific spec they desire.

I'm sorry, but this isn't candyland. If you honestly can't complete the content, then you'll just have to get better. I know I had to. Back in BC, Two bosses in Tempus Keep was the best I could hope for. The first two bosses in BT were slim chances at best. I dealt with it just fine. But when Wrath came out, I resolved myself to not let anything hold me back. Suddenly I was one of the best geared shamans on my server.

It doesn't take vast amounts of time. But it does take vast amounts of effort. Nothing in this world worth having should come free or easy. If it does, you don't appreciate it near as much.

Now? Blizzard might as well hand the guilds loot, because you certainly don't have to try hard to kill the Loot pinatas known as Flame Leviathan, Ignis the Furnace Master, and Razorscale.

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By the power of greyskull! That's a lot of text! O.o

> See what you made me do?

[Izenhart]

Because I want the normal versions to be a challenge. I have only killed 3 bosses in Ulduar, and I have no interest in continuing if the bare minimum is easy.

What the nerfs did was make it so there is no need for anyone to learn how to play. There is no need for anyone to have contact. No need for a local raiding community. It appears everything is puggable by the most retarded people on earth. In effect, more dumb people are prevalent. Things like RAF also assisted in this dumbing down.

They nerfed 6 bosses our of 14, buffed 5 bosses between HardModes and Algalon, ALL of the 6 bosses nerfed, after 2 WEEKS of Ulduar, are SUPPOSED to be in FARM of every "Normal" raiding guild, ther's no fucking reason of whining because they nerfed Auriaya, Kologarn, Mimiron, Freya, because you ALREADY oneshot them, who cares if they are "weaker"? (if doing 5.5k instead 7k is that much of a weaker)

It isn't changing the fact that they should be in farm by everyone, and noone is even fucking mentioning that they buffed half of the Hardmodes plus Algalon himself, while noone in 25men have even been able to see him.

[Gron]

Making it easily accessible is not the solution.

I agree.

With so many (over 10 million players) WOW will need to service different needs.
With "virtually" one difficulty level (normal mode), and some hidden "hardmodes" (e.g. its not even found in the achievements which is hard achivement, which isn't, so unless you do your homework you might find some detail, that out of the 60 Ulduar achievements 10 is considered hardmode....

So all in all, if Blizzard always nerfs all content, players who are learning to play will find out its easier to progress if they learn to QQ about difficulty.

By the way, Ignis encounter was bugged, as Blizzard was late with release of the content pack and they released Ulduar as is to fill a huge gap of missing raiding content from Wrath.

Having hard encounters, wiping for 2 days then completing it will make you feel better, and will make you a better player too (as if you want to be a good player, you will discuss with other players what went right / what went wrong with encounter, and where you can improve).

Also - Izenheart - following your logic, if Ulduar should be on farm after 2 week by casual guilds, then Blizzard better get their act together and release 3.2 in June or July the latest...

I think 14 bossess should last longer than 2 weeks, and content patches - as we will need to wait for 6 months - are good if they are not too easy (and easy is relative to you and your guild).

[Deleted]

What these nerfs essentially have done is lower the amount of skill needed to see new content.

yep because the 12 year old scrub should be as able to see the new content he is paying for as the 30year old pro gamer.let them have fun too come on don´t be so mean. if ulduar is too easy for you although you just killed 3 bosses( ironically somehow nah?! ^^)and you´re too elitist to let other people have a good gaming experience then please quit my dear :/

[Squishie]

We dont care about hard modes because we arent that kind of group, we are just going along, seeing where we get each week. We dont have the resources or the time to dedicate to really pushing the hard modes, especially not at this time. So seeing as how this is all we can do atm, we wanted the challenge. Yes, these encounters are quite difficult, and by far the most difficult progression raid since BT/Sunwell days. Hard modes are designed for a different kind of raider than the normal modes, they go beyond what is normally required of your group, and normally require lots of work, time and resources put into them. However, for those who dont fit that mold, such as myself, we have the normal mode, and its disheartening to see the content being reduced in the difficulty.

I wonder if you see the irony in what you said. This game is not just about people who can spend endless time on it every week. A lot of people who play and enjoy it are working people. Who have lives and other commitments. Many of whome do not wish to spend what little raid time they have each week, wiping on the same boss. Its nice to be challanged and get a sense of achievment from your raids. But its also nice to actually be able to progress and see some of the game that you are paying for.

Blizzard in an attempt to cater to both of these introduced Hardmodes for the challange and achiement and made the normal mode much more accessable for players who do not have unlimited time.

What you seem to be asking for is a challange, but not a hardmode challange because thats too tough for you. Well im sorry if the hardmodes are a bit tough for you and you find the easy modes to easy. Thats a nich you seem to be stuck in and i doupt that you will be alone. However its better than what we had with previous content. Where a lot of the raids where to hard for 80+% of people to complete.

We all pay for this game, we all have the same right to be able to see the current 'end boss'. Rather than complaining that the Normal mode is too easy i think what you should be doing is complaining that the hard mode is too hard. But i guess it doesnt make your e-peen look as large.

[Graviteh]

Good Morning everyone!

So many people to reply to...

Anyway, I will repeat this again: If a hardcore guild can clear an entire dungeon in 7 hours, why can't a casual guild that spends 3/4 hours on 2 weekend or weekday nights? The difference is skill. If a guild whines about something being too hard after 2 wipes, don't bend to them! People have been enjoying everything as is.

Again, my view is that if they aren't willing to learn and spend some time with people to learn bosses, then they aren't raiders and don't deserve to see the content.

All that needs to be done for each member is to look up a boss on wowwiki, read for 10 minutes, make sure everyone knows what to do, then use communication.

Now that I think about it, maybe Blizzard is trying to remove the strategic part out of the bosses.

But still, my position is still that Lowering the difficulty of the already easy bosses is not the correct procedure.

And thanks for all the smart replies. I do understand why some people would want the nerfs... but in my opinion it just caters to people who don't want to raid.

Think about it like this: If you cannot spend enough hours in a week to beat some gorey console game, you don't ask for an easier version from the publisher. You play something else like CS or Animal Crossing. (I loved that game on gamecube ). Likewise, if you can't raid, You should spend some time in arenas or do the first few bosses as they were.

[Slaytanicus]

If you pay $15 per month, you are entitled.

[Wynsight]

If you pay $15 per month, you are entitled.

Everyone also pays $15,000/year for a college education at a specific school, but that doesn't mean they're entitled to the highest paying jobs after graduation because they didn't put in the effort during their four years. Only the people that put in the effort, had the intelligence and had the motivation get to see "end game" jobs.

[Suikiele]

If you pay $15 per month, you are entitled.

I am required to pay hundreds of dollars for car insurance every year, and I am granted absolutely zero commentary. Something you pay $15 for and it's OPTIONAL, I can't see why that would entitled you to jackshit.

[Squishie]

Good Morning everyone!

So many people to reply to...

Anyway, I will repeat this again: If a hardcore guild can clear an entire dungeon in 7 hours, why can't a casual guild that spends 3/4 hours on 2 weekend or weekday nights? The difference is skill. If a guild whines about something being too hard after 2 wipes, don't bend to them! People have been enjoying everything as is.

If a hardcore guild takes 7 hours why cant a casual guild take the same time over 2 days? It doesnt work like that. It takes a lot longer to clear content if you are in a casual guild. Its not a matter of how long you can spend in 1 sitting.

Think about it like this: If you cannot spend enough hours in a week to beat some gorey console game, you don't ask for an easier version from the publisher. You play something else like CS or Animal Crossing. (I loved that game on gamecube ). Likewise, if you can't raid, You should spend some time in arenas or do the first few bosses as they were.

The difference is the console game doesnt reset its self once a week. If you do not get to the end. Which is the case you have with raids.

I understand peoples frustration. When any idiot can come and have often better gear than people who know what they are doing and put in effort. But thats what blizzard tryed to fix with the hardmodes.
You still have to learn the fights and it still takes time. They have not toned it down that far, it just makes the whole thing a lot more accessable.

As a person who can usualy only raid 4/5hours a week. I certainly feel thankful for the changes. I now might actually have a chance of seeing Yogg-Saron. This side of Arthus. Or probebly what would have been more likley this side of the next expansion.

[Slipslider]

Everyone also pays $15,000/year for a college education at a specific school, but that doesn't mean they're entitled to the highest paying jobs after graduation because they didn't put in the effort during their four years. Only the people that put in the effort, had the intelligence and had the motivation get to see "end game" jobs.

Right cause a video game = college education...

Toot toot here comes the failboat.

[Daedelus]

If you pay $15 per month, you are entitled.

This had better be a joke. It's so not an argument.

I pay £25 a month to my gym - I am entitled to look like Arnold Schwarzengger.

[Mairyonette]

Right cause a video game = college education...

Toot toot here comes the failboat.

I don't think I've ever seen someone so willing and able to miss a point.

[Evilsoap]

Right cause a video game = college education...

Toot toot here comes the failboat.

It's called an analogy, failboat indeed.

[gilfanon]

Everyone also pays $15,000/year for a college education at a specific school, but that doesn't mean they're entitled to the highest paying jobs after graduation because they didn't put in the effort during their four years. Only the people that put in the effort, had the intelligence and had the motivation get to see "end game" jobs.

Your $15K a year guarantees you access to all areas of the University that fall within the agreement you've made with the University. If the University offers you access to library facilities, then you can legitimately complain if they renege on that deal and say "umm, ok, we said you could use the library, but we've changed our mind- we don't think you're clever enough, so we're withdrawing your library access". Equally, Blizzard have said they want all players to be able to see the content. Look at it this way- I got 2 class medals when I was at University for being top of my class- those class medals equate to gear from Algalon, they're a reward for high performance. At no point did I say to any of my classmates "I'm sorry, you can't see the inside of the library because you're not as leet as I am". (not least of all because I'd be an elitist asshole if I did)

Pick holes at my analogy if you like, the real point is anyone can make up an analogy to support their argument. Blizzard have said they want most people to be able to see all of, or at least more of, the end game content, rather than locking it from access to large swathes of the population by requiring a large time investment in perfecting tactics. Their word is the only one that counts. Like it or lump it.