My response to those supporting "easy mode" nerfs.

[Graviteh]

Here is an argument I see come up frequently.

Why don't you just do the hard modes if you want a challenge?

Because I want the normal versions to be a challenge. I have only killed 3 bosses in Ulduar, and I have no interest in continuing if the bare minimum is easy.

What these nerfs essentially have done is lower the amount of skill needed to see new content.

I understand Blizzard wants more people to see their content. I also understand some home builders want people to buy their homes. These home buyers are people who come from all over the country with the intent to settle in somewhere new.

Common players do not intend to see the content unless they raid. They don't want to see the new content. How do I know? They aren't learning the game. They aren't making friends. That is what you need to succeed in anything in WoW.

Making it easily accessible is not the solution.

This game was about socializing. I assumed that the difficulty of bosses were a lock, and that raiding as a hobby is the key.

What the nerfs did was make it so there is no need for anyone to learn how to play. There is no need for anyone to have contact. No need for a local raiding community. It appears everything is puggable by the most retarded people on earth. In effect, more dumb people are prevalent. Things like RAF also assisted in this dumbing down.

I am not someone who wants to buy a mansion across the country. I want to move into a local 1-bedroom home. I do not want it given to be for free, though. I do know some people would love to move into a mansion. I do know some people are lazy and go on welfare even when they are fully capable of success in life.

My college classes are hard. I don't ask my professor to make the class easier if I am on the verge of failing. I just try fucking harder. (Fuck Geography)

I am hoping I worded this little post correctly, but please, I want everyone to tell me what they think; arguments and agreements are welcome as long as it's civil. English is not exactly my best language.

[Dumbhammer]

You don't explain why you are so against doing hardmodes if Ulduar is too easy for you.

The fact is you won't truely clear Ulduar till you do hard modes to get the real final boss. So even if you don't like hardmodes, it is the REAL end game. Therefore the challenge you crave is alive and well in the game.

[Barrenknight]

...your an idiot. WoW doesn't have as many dedicated peeps as before (back in MC days, or even BT days). A bunch of newbs joining the ranks and dont have a clue... does that mean peeps on poor raiding servers are to suffer? I think your QQing just to QQ.. Dont like changes do what all the other real wow players are doin and quit. Me on the other hand an gonna finally be able to enjoy some new stuff without havin to join a *FAIL guild* (fail as in "they dont know this is still a effin game and not RL") and just run with a few good friends.

[Krypt]

You don't explain why you are so against doing hardmodes if Ulduar is too easy for you.

The fact is you won't truely clear Ulduar till you do hard modes to get the real final boss. So even if you don't like hardmodes, it is the REAL end game. Therefore the challenge you crave is alive and well in the game.

Because there's a massive difference between hard mode and easy mode.

Like, a tier of raiding in difficulty (i like it though)

[Raptorg]

Do the hard modes..

Plain and simple, end of discussion.

Suck it up, it's fine.

[Graviteh]

You don't explain why you are so against doing hardmodes if Ulduar is too easy for you.

The fact is you won't truely clear Ulduar till you do hard modes to get the real final boss. So even if you don't like hardmodes, it is the REAL end game. Therefore the challenge you crave is alive and well in the game.

Hardmodes are not new content. although, I do know they are the way one new boss... At the moment, it's close to impossible and requires raid stacking.

[jimbo831]

...your an idiot. WoW doesn't have as many dedicated peeps as before (back in MC days, or even BT days). A bunch of newbs joining the ranks and dont have a clue... does that mean peeps on poor raiding servers are to suffer? I think your QQing just to QQ.. Dont like changes do what all the other real wow players are doin and quit. Me on the other hand an gonna finally be able to enjoy some new stuff without havin to join a *FAIL guild* (fail as in "they know this is still a effin game and not RL") and just run with a few good friends.

I completely agree with this point, but we reach different conclusions based on these thoughts. Have you tried Ulduar at all before the nerfs? My guild just took our few best players as well as a couple people we were familiar with to try it out this weekend. To put it in perspective, we have cleared Naxx 10 for several weeks in a row, but often still have wipes with many of the players in guild not doing stuff right, etc. We have yet to clear Naxx 25. However, despite all this, we cleared Leviathon, Razorscale, Ignis, and Deconstructor. Sure, we spent some time wiping while we got better and better at the last two fights (first two are easily one shotted). This was half of the fun to me.

I run Naxx every week to help other guild members get gear (I am MT so it helps to have me overgeared in there) but it is not fun anymore. For the most part all of the fights are pretty easy and there is little challenge for me on these. I really enjoyed the challenge that Ulduar presented. These changes are taking a lot of that away. Prior to these nerfs, it wasn't extremely difficult as my casual guild was able to beat them. Blizzard seems to think that any group should just be able to waltz in and clear stuff without some work and effort. That just isn't fun.

Before you say to try the hard modes, I will say that we are far from ready for them. I thought it was tuned very well to the point that it was difficult, but very doable with some effort. If your guild or PUG isn't willing to wipe for a while to learn it, then don't do it. Do the easier Naxx, OS, Vault, or heroics. I thought Blizz should've waited at least a month, preferably 2, until they made it as easy as Naxx, which is what they are slowly doing. They even said they plan to nerf the later bosses too, so I'm sure the whole thing will be easy mode within 2 more weeks. Just not fun.

[Gomexus]

Without flaming or anything of the nature here's the real deal:

Blizzard views this game as having two seperate but equal parts, pve and pvp.

They take steps to give similar loot to players who choose one path over the other.

They then take steps to insure that it takes about as long to acquire gear with either path. (constantly screwing with arena>rating>points setups)

They also make more and more content accessible for more and more people. (Two tiers of Arena Weps now? Ulduar Nerfs)

Whether you, or your friends, or your entire guild/"community" of raiders like it is irrelevant. Whether or not the proposed changes will increase profit margins is all that matters.

WoW is not a game, it may be to you, and to a lot of us, but in the end WoW is a product being marketed and sold by Blizzard. As is the case with many products, you buy it and stfu, or you do not buy it and move along.

[Illojim]

What the nerfs did was make it so there is no need for anyone to learn how to play. There is no need for anyone to have contact. No need for a local raiding community. It appears everything is puggable by the most retarded people on earth. In effect, more dumb people are prevalent.

Completely false.

I'd like to see a PUG get past Deconstructor.

My response to the OP: You are an idiot.

[Graviteh]

Completely false.

I'd like to see a PUG get past Deconstructor.

My response to the OP: You are an idiot.

Sure thing. Here is a video I myself recorded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCu1U0-U27s

[Illojim]

Sure thing. Here is a video I myself recorded: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCu1U0-U27s

Do it on 25 man. And do it weekly.

[Graviteh]

Me on the other hand an gonna finally be able to enjoy some new stuff without havin to join a *FAIL guild* (fail as in "they dont know this is still a effin game and not RL") and just run with a few good friends.

As much as I do not want to reply to your troll post, you made a good point and I wish to provide a counter point:

Your skill in the game does not have any correlation to the time spent. for example: whether or not you are hardcore or casual. If you can get together for one hour, you can do a naxx speed run if you are skilled. Likewise, some people can spend hours for many nights clearing naxx if they are not skilled.

[Vallos]

You... haven't cleared Ulduar and you're complaining that it's too easy.

I'm in a pretty raid-focused guild (Immortal, 3D, etc.) and we're only on Mimiron in 25-man, and General (he's hard, okay?) in 10man. These are easymodes.

Until you clear Ulduar in even -EASY- mode, you really have no room to bitch about hard modes.

[Graviteh]

You... haven't cleared Ulduar and you're complaining that it's too easy.

I'm in a pretty raid-focused guild (Immortal, 3D, etc.) and we're only on Mimiron in 25-man, and General (he's hard, okay?) in 10man. These are easymodes.

Until you clear Ulduar in even -EASY- mode, you really have no room to bitch about hard modes.

????

Did you nor Illojim read my posts?

I am not complaining about anything being too hard. I am complaining about easy stuff becoming easier.

I should provide an alternate reason I don't like these changes: This stuff should have been tested and tuned in the PTR.

[Illojim]

Look man why the fuck does it matter if it's a bit easier now. The challenge comes with hard modes, end of story.

[Graviteh]

Look man why the fuck does it matter if it's a bit easier now. The challenge comes with hard modes, end of story.

I don't care about hard modes. This topic has little to do with hard modes. I am talking about completely doable progression content being nerfed to oblivion so anyone who waltzes in can do it.

[Illojim]

I don't care about hard modes. This topic has little to do with hard modes. I am talking about completely doable progression content being nerfed to oblivion so anyone who waltzes in can do it.

Show me some of these bad groups going in and clearing up to at least 1 or 2 keepers.

[Thellais]

As someone who will probably never do most of the hard modes especially in 25 man, I was a little dissapointed by the nerfs to the encounters outside of the hard modes. Sure we havent cleared everything yet, however we were making progress through the instance before these nerfs and I really enjoyed the challenge they posed. Dont get me wrong, I still enjoy Ulduar, the most fun I have had since BT, yet imo, if my group and I can progress through the content before the nerfs, then pretty much anyone can.

[Vallos]

The point is that you haven't even done the easymodes and you're complaining that they're becoming easier. They're not easy, at all. I'd imagine that a very, very small portion of people have even seen Yogg Saron.

Also, why don't you care about hard modes? If you want a challenge for your progression, you have it there. You can't even see all of the material unless you do hard modes (Algalon).

[Graviteh]

Show me some of these bad groups going in and clearing up to at least 1 or 2 keepers.

Now you're just posting irrelevant nonsense. The reason I didn't want these nerfs is so these so-called 'bads' wouldn't have a free ride.