Feral Druids - the Bear guide

[Selverein]

As the last weeks went, I've switched from pure agility to Shifting Dreadstones all over the place. It brought me back a SSC feeling, but it works

I have to admit I'm glad to read this, as I've done the same no more than 2 days ago. Changed 11 or 12 delicate cardinal rubies for shifting dreadstones.

Not a huge difference obviously but the extra health is going to help. I still don't feel the need to stack straight Stam, but this looks good so far. With BoK and BoS it gives that much more health, too, without gimping dodge or TPS very much at all.

[axxey]

I must be a ghost then. Because I happen to have tanked BWL, AQ40 and some shit in Naxx. Feral gear was there if you knew where to look. Warriors being better doesn't mean you were useless, at all.
Patchwerk was actually the reason feral tanks started to pop up in big guilds too.

Problem for ferals in vanilla was the plateau of gear between blues better than any MC/BWL epics and before you could get odd AQ and naxx pieces that worked great for feral. Itemisation was just severely lacking.

Current itemisation for me is very much fight by fight, am tending much more towards stam geming now however, higher item level gear is also stacking higher base AGI on gear meaning less needed elsewhere to maintain avoidance.

I'd still gem much more agi if i was offtanking, fallen much more into main tanking since our pally and warrior are incompetant half the time.

[arel00]

Problem for ferals in vanilla was the plateau of gear between blues better than any MC/BWL epics and before you could get odd AQ and naxx pieces that worked great for feral. Itemisation was just severely lacking.

Sigh... so very true. Still, you could find what you needed. And entering AQ40 was a pure blessing, I tell ya

With BoK and BoS it gives that much more health, too, without gimping dodge or TPS very much at all.

Just to clarify, BoS and BoK don't stack, you get 10% stamina only once.

[Selverein]

Just to clarify, BoS and BoK don't stack, you get 10% stamina only once.

Dayum, thanks for the clarification. I never really paid much attention to it and our Pally tank had taken a break for a while so BoS became a rarity. My health felt much higher since he's been back (coinciding with ToC patch) but I guess it was purely from the gear upgrades.

[spda242]

I know I'll punch myself in the face by stating this but.. I found myself agreeing with stamina needs more than what I would have thought (I'm an agility lover).
.....Stuff Deleted....
As the last weeks went, I've switched from pure agility to Shifting Dreadstones all over the place. It brought me back a SSC feeling, but it works :P

I wouldn't say stamina is "the way to go". I'd say that pure agility is no longer "the way to go" tho. Raids seem to call for a mixture of the two.

I have had similar thought, I have so far followed RAWRs advice (Gem for Agility) to 90% or so. I have "been a naughty boy" and gemed for agl/sta or sta in a few cases but after we have ventured into ToC10/25 and I have been 2-shoted several times with 2x20-25k hits I really would like some more sta.
My stats are like 43-44k and 43-44% dodge raidbuffed and my gear are missing a few important pieces (good wrists,boots, I use ToC5 HC items), some things just refuse to drop

[tauromania]

I have had similar thought, I have so far followed RAWRs advice (Gem for Agility) to 90% or so. I have "been a naughty boy" and gemed for agl/sta or sta in a few cases but after we have ventured into ToC10/25 and I have been 2-shoted several times with 2x20-25k hits I really would like some more sta.
My stats are like 43-44k and 43-44% dodge raidbuffed and my gear are missing a few important pieces (good wrists,boots, I use ToC5 HC items), some things just refuse to drop

that's a bit low...i'm not overgeared (emblem gear + naxx 10 & toc hero) but in raid i got something like 45k hp and 50-52% dodge

[spda242]

that's a bit low...i'm not overgeared (emblem gear + naxx 10 & toc hero) but in raid i got something like 45k hp and 50-52% dodge

I can see why you (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ngeli+e+Draghi) have higher sta than me (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ivarr&n=Kobert), you are wearing PvP items and I don't PvP so if I don't get a drop I just have to wait....
...but I don't see how you can get 50-52% dodge in raids even with Mongoose procs and Use trinkets?

....and don't bitch about my staffenchant, I have been so occupied with all ToC5/10/25 and Daily HC so I forgotten about it :O

[arel00]

I can see why you (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ngeli+e+Draghi) have higher sta than me (http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ivarr&n=Kobert), you are wearing PvP items and I don't PvP so if I don't get a drop I just have to wait....
...but I don't see how you can get 50-52% dodge in raids even with Mongoose procs and Use trinkets?

....and don't bitch about my staffenchant, I have been so occupied with all ToC5/10/25 and Daily HC so I forgotten about it :O

What about it? You have 44% dodge yourself while Bear, you can have over 50% yourself with idol+mongoose+trinkets.

[Sunshine]

What about it? You have 44% dodge yourself while Bear, you can have over 50% yourself with idol+mongoose+trinkets.

I believe spda was referring to Tauromania in particular -- showing 30% dodge on armory, plus 10% from bear form = 40%... plus raid buffs is 50-52%?

12% from raid buffs seems high, although I haven't been paying attention recently to how much it is.

[spda242]

I believe spda was referring to Tauromania in particular -- showing 30% dodge on armory, plus 10% from bear form = 40%... plus raid buffs is 50-52%?

12% from raid buffs seems high, although I haven't been paying attention recently to how much it is.

Yeah I was referring to Tauromania!
My question was really when I talk about how much sta/dodge I got raidbuffed I only count basic buffs like Sta,Motw,Kings,food I usually don't count temporary buffs like proc's, use effects etc.
Do people in general talk about stats with these standard buffs or are procs,use effects and other included?

[arel00]

Yeah I was referring to Tauromania!
My question was really when I talk about how much sta/dodge I got raidbuffed I only count basic buffs like Sta,Motw,Kings,food I usually don't count temporary buffs like proc's, use effects etc.
Do people in general talk about stats with these standard buffs or are procs,use effects and other included?

A "standard" raid buffed situation includes: MotW, BoK, food, *Strength of Earth* and, reasonably, any Idol proc, since it *is* part of your gear, and most have 100% uptime (on Dodge side).
Usually trinkets and Mongoose aren't accounted for, but that is not always the case. It's reasonable to assume an average uptime from procs, whether it's Mongoose or trinkets. It's not so reasonable to count On-Use effects, since they're mostly for shitty situations.

I'll grab the chance on this. Since I'm sometimes stating data from math models or combat log parses, I'll clarify what assumptions/factors are accounted in when I talk about "raid buffed".

- MotW
- PW:F
- Devotion Aura
- Blessing of Kings
- Strength of Earth
- Commanding Shout/Blood Pact
- Agi/Sta food
- Flask of Stoneblood
- Sanctuary/whatever the priest buff is called
- Infected Wounds or equivalent

Regarding TPS, I'm assuming:

- Faerie Fire
- Sunder Armor
- Windfury or equivalent
- SoE totem
- Blessing of Might (BS)
- Blood Frenzy or equivalent
- Heart of the Crusader or whatever else gives 3% crit
- of course, LotP

[numufu]

posting because i wanna see a new Best in Slot guide for the new gear that has been out. dying to see what i should go for/upgrade.

[arel00]

posting because i wanna see a new Best in Slot guide for the new gear that has been out. dying to see what i should go for/upgrade.

Eh, that's something I was thinking about. Since it's mostly a how-to guide, I was considering stopping the BiS lists for every tier, saved the beginning one. That's assuming most people by T9 should know what to go for.

Anyway, since it does turn out useful, I think I'll try to put up a T9 level list. And then maybe moving all of them into a new thread. But later for this. I'll get to work for real when I have some spare time.

[Nassam]

Eh, that's something I was thinking about. Since it's mostly a how-to guide, I was considering stopping the BiS lists for every tier, saved the beginning one. That's assuming most people by T9 should know what to go for.

I prefer the beginning of your post saying "people have to know what is good for them"... Giving "BiS list" to people will not help people getting better, just being more assisted... And that's how we find people with "BiS gear" and having a shitty DPS in PUG :s

Moreover, a BiS list is a list that have the necessary caps and so on. But while trying to reach this stuff list, you may go have a lesser dps because even if this item is BiS (in the whole list), alone, it makes you loose X hit or expertise and so on...

I have this problem at the moment, and that's why I think people should think by themselves when upgrading their stuff. I have to wait to get 3 pieces of stuff before swapping any of these (even if I have 2 pieces on the 3).

But given a BiS List, some people just take and equip instantly saying "it's BiS, i equip it"...

[arel00]

I prefer the beginning of your post saying "people have to know what is good for them"... Giving "BiS list" to people will not help people getting better, just being more assisted... And that's how we find people with "BiS gear" and having a shitty DPS in PUG :s

Moreover, a BiS list is a list that have the necessary caps and so on. But while trying to reach this stuff list, you may go have a lesser dps because even if this item is BiS (in the whole list), alone, it makes you loose X hit or expertise and so on...

I have this problem at the moment, and that's why I think people should think by themselves when upgrading their stuff. I have to wait to get 3 pieces of stuff before swapping any of these (even if I have 2 pieces on the 3).

But given a BiS List, some people just take and equip instantly saying "it's BiS, i equip it"...

That is one of the reasons I was considering stopping/removing lists. Anyway, I'll see what can be done to try and both keep a useful list, as well as stating your point the clearest possible.

[kaba]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...B_aAo0sC,,9835

opinion?

[arel00]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...B_aAo0sC,,9835

opinion?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...VYYCz0eK,,9835

This. If you want both MSS and Imp.Mangle, better one less point on Swipe and maxing Infected Wounds.

[Syph]

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?drui...VYYCz0eK,,9835

This. If you want both MSS and Imp.Mangle, better one less point on Swipe and maxing Infected Wounds.

err, why not this then ???

Unless you somehow manage to actually deplete the ragebar more then once every blue moon I personally feel that the talent doesnt belong in a feral-tank spec - again my opinion not a fact

[arel00]

err, why not this then ???

Unless you somehow manage to actually deplete the ragebar more then once every blue moon I personally feel that the talent doesnt belong in a feral-tank spec - again my opinion not a fact

You're right. It depens on the focus and flavor of the build, and of course on your raid comp and your role. If you're the MT, your build goes off better.
I tend to keep OOC because of a matter-of-fact habit many ferals have. That is, helping out dps when you're not tanking, on the same fight that is. Quick examples, Icehowl and Jaraxxus while no adds are present (or IC, Auraya, Yogg P2). OOC is one of the best dps increase talents, so if you do find yourself in a tank-gear-and-spec situation when offtanking isn't needed, and desire to help out the dps, it turns useful.
As I mentioned, it's a metter of flavor. Both alternatives are valid. Just one word on it: don't be tempted to use 2/3 on Imp.Mangle. It's either 0 or 3 as a Bear, anything in between doesn't make any difference from not taking it at all (since you need the full 1.5sec to skip over 1 gcd).

[Syph]

helping out dps when you're not tanking, on the same fight that is.

Ahhh, that makes sense... Probably never considered its DPS benefit as MT At least now I understand why its such a common talent even amongst the purest of feral tanks ^^