So, Axe or Mace? (PVP)

[Thewtfman]

Hey guys

This is a PvP Question:

So, this wednesday I'm going to buy the 1850 rating weapon. But I just don't know if I should buy the AXE or MACE?

If I should go with Axe, it should be Axe+Str Gems and Mace should be Mace+Str gems.

From the start of season 5 I always prefered Axe, because of the 5% max dmg on crits, but a lot of the combos I meet which is hard are high plated enemies, which made me think of going mace.

I've heard that Mace+Arp gems isn't so nicely, but that Mace+Str gems should be pretty good.

That means I will have around 25% Armor Pen, I may use a few PvE pieces and stack sunders.
I don't have the Grim Toll, but is it still worth it?

+ THE MACE LOOKS BADASS!! ;D

[Melissa]

This is what people told me

Axe is a slace weapon U will hit a lot
Mace is more a blunt weapon u will crit more

I am not sure if this is true

[Gawrhshshsh]

Axe spec seems to be general consensus. Guaranteed crits+crit% meta makes it very appealing, and considering the representation of rogue/priest/druid the armor pen feels kinda wasted.

[Thewtfman]

Well, the 5% crit isn't really so important, since we get crit from MS when charge and OP Crits, its more the 5% more dmg on crits that is really nice.

But the problem is that the enemies we have trouble with is high armored enemies.. So maybe the Mace (15% armor pen) helped on that.

[Knuffelbert]

I have problems finding an Arena mace weapon, so before long it would be axe anyway. Except you can get your hand on an Ulduar weapon.

[Gawrhshshsh]

ArP is multiplicative, not added together-something to remember.

[Thewtfman]

Lets say I stack 5x Sunder (20%), what will it then be?

[tet]

Mace then, with higher armor pen, the stronger the stat becomes... until the cap. Don't worry about expertise because it's hardly used in pvp (since you should be attacking from behind and player characters don't dodge from behind unlike bosses).

[magehater]

Well, on my armor of 13465 with sunders, maces and battle stance my effective armor would be 13465 x 0.90 x 0.85 x 0.80 ~ 8240 or about 35% damage reduction, so about a 12% drop from 46.92%.

Wrong.

isnt as simple as that

[AnArmedKurd]

Axe gets worse the more resilience people have and since MS/Overpower are your main damage abilities (with naturally high crit rates through talents) I'd say ArP wins.

[Thewtfman]

I just dunno what to do..

I don't think I will be able to keep up 5x sunders unless I have to tunnel someone down. But most matches I have to switch around and such, then it will be hard to keep sunders up. And I won't replace any of my PvP gear with PvE gear, because the dmg/burst is high, so I need my resilience.

So I will basicly only get 10% - Battle Stance and 15% - from Mace Spec, if this isn't better than 5% increased dmg on crits and 5% crit then I won't go mace.

[Thewtfman]

Okay, I've read around other forums, and they say the same.

That I should only go Arp if I'm able to get capped, if not, stick with Axe.

[Accalon]

Be a pro, roll a staff, and dont use any weapon specs

[tet]

Dude at this point i would say just get whatever you like. Something tells me this season will last a while so should be enough to get a 2nd 2 hander.

[Ness00]

Well, you're right, it's not. However, if the OP doesn't know how to calculate ArP correctly then best just to give him the simple answer. Anyways, I removed the "simple explanation" from the thread so as not to give out disinformation.

Using my warrior's armor as an example again, 13465, and taking a look at how much maces would penetrate. The formula is something like (13465+15232.5)/3=9565.8333..., choosing the smaller of the two 0.15 x 9565.8333...~1434.87, which is about what the maces bypass alone, which drops the armor from 13465 down to about 12030, so while the expected armor penetration was 15%, the true penetration was a bit over 10%.

Then add in battle stance and possibly sunders, and in the end you'll end up close enough to what I suggested earlier for it to really not make much difference how you calculate it.

Anyways, people here have been saying that if you've got plenty of ArP then maces are better, which is absolutely true, however, I personally don't think there's enough ArP in pure PvP gear even if you gem for it.

Well, when doing sunders it gets more tricky. Debuffs on a target are multiplicative but ArP through talents, gear and stance are additive of each other. If you have 13465 armor with full sunders up you would be at 10772. 10772+15232.5/3 = 8668. Then you take stance+spec+gear and multiply that by 8668 then subtract the product from 10772 to find what the armor would be. Either way in PvP gear Axe spec comes out on top because it is capable of more burst than Mace spec.

[Thewtfman]

I could just image that Mace would be nice.

Ex:

Stacking up 5x sunders, charge MS Crit, OP crit, Execute.

This would hurt a lot with sunders, battle stance and mace spec.

[Cyrant]

I'm going to be going after the axe most likely. That being said I'm going to end up using it raiding too so I want the highest DPS option available.

However I may end up looking at the math more between axe vs mace. You guys make some interesting points.

[Thewtfman]

I think that I just will buy the axe, won't risk anything..

It's just that, every counter to us is high armored enemies.. :-\

Sunders, Mace Spec, Battle Stance - Charge, Rend, MS, OP, Execute, Recklessness, Bladestorm, ouch..

[RPZip]

I think that I just will buy the axe, won't risk anything..

It's just that, every counter to us is high armored enemies.. :-\

I have some of the biggest problems in 2v2 with Rogue/Priest teams, so I'm definitely staying with the Axe spec.

In 1v1 our counters tend to be high-armor, although it's not a given. In 2v2s, though? Rets and DKs are obnoxious, but not nearly as bad as the Rogues are.

[Thewtfman]

Well, we meet a lot of druids/paladins/shaman healers. And often we meet warriors too. Priest/Rogue isnt hard really, more farmable so far :