Arena Balancing - Fix for current issues via mana burns

[TwistedPower]

So thinking about how blizzard does not want arena matches that are to long or short. Matches that are to bursty or too much CC. I thought of a great way to change arenas without increasing burst or increasing CC, without them ending to fast, and prevent them from lasting to long. Also it would not change PvE by making any class any better or worse than it already is for raiding.(not its not give everybody MS)

Give all healing specs a mana burn effect.

Here are my reasoning’s behind why the mana burn effect and why healers should get them and not DPS.

Healers with mana regen and good survivability are an issue in BGs. The different ways of dealing with a healer is 1 burst, 2 CC, 3 MS effects, 4 Mana burn.

When its to easy to burst down a healer then BG's become all about who has the biggest burst, leading to short fights dominated by people with lots of cooldowns to avoid damage, like DK's cooldowns, or pally bubble, ice block ect.

When there is too much CC then the arena becomes a place for people who have CC's that stack and chain CC where sometimes people are out an entire fight. Like say sap+ fear + sheep + blind repeat = you were CC'd the entire time that your partner(s) died. This again is not really balanced and isn’t very fun especially if you class has no constant CC or if you are the one being CC'd.

If everybody had an MS effect then you might as well make all arena's have a debuff that applies it and be done with it. Then you get back into the burst scenario where it comes down to who can burst the best.

Let me say this first. Mana burn can be way too powerful if everybody had it. If more dps had it then teams that didn’t have player with mana would be at an advantage with those who did. Say mage warlock vs. rogue warrior (just for an example).

However if all healing specs had some form of mana burn (obviously in different forms of use so that it varies and not all homogenized) that was somewhere in the talent tree (to prevent the DPS specs from using it) then that would solve the too much healer mana in arenas.

From what I gather you have to chose weather to mana burn or heal. Obviously you’re not going to mana burn the mage if you partner is going to die from the mages dps.

There are times in arena where a healer is not healing but the player’s damage may not be effective at this time. Really the only choice is regen mana to gain the mana advantage vs. the other healer. <<< THIS IS THE BIG PROBLEM. This is what extends games out SO LONG. However if the healer had the choice to try and burn the other healers mana and by that way gaining mana advantage then this would shorten the long healer games.

Since the healers have the mana burn then it’s not a DPS class buff so it doesn’t have to be rebalanced into the DPS classes so one class isn’t to over powered. It makes healing game play in arena more tactical than the current style which is "run around the pillar." It would not change PvE because it would not change damage done by anybody.

There are currently no bosses that need massive amount of mana burn. Actually if you think about it becuase all healers would have a mana burn then those types of fight or similar ones with adds that need mana burn can be brought back into the game. Since every healer has a burn no need to get rid of mike so the warlocks and shadow priest can come in to burn the bosses’ mana.


I am 100% serious about trying to get blizzard to consider this possibility and I honestly believe that if the burns are balanced correctly then arenas will NOT turn into one big CC and burn the healer war.



Some things I’ve thought about are mana burn effects being less effective on CC'ed targets. Something like 30% less mana burned than normal, maybe 35%. Also I really like the idea of mana burn effects breaking things like fear early.

I also believe that each mana burn should do some damage even if it’s not allot so that the burn would break effects like sheep, blind, gouge, ect.

Each burn could be brought into every class into a unique way. There realy isnt a PvP seal for holy pallys, well a mana burn seal could be brought in. Or it combined with the increase range on judgments it could be a really great way to bring some great pvp utility to that talent. Maybe when you judge the seal it does only a small amount of holy damage but drains a % amount of mana. These were just some of the ones I like best there are tons others,

Shaman could have a mana shock maybe, or (i like this one) a glyph to punish those people who kill you totems. When X totem (I don’t know maybe tremor, grounding, mana spring maybe all of them or half of them or all earth totems or water totems) is destroyed or the timer runs out, burn 3% mana from all enemy targets in 40 yards can only happen once every 2 or maybe 4 seconds. If somebody stomps all your totems they are going to PAY. Unless it’s double rogue. Then there not but w/e then it doesn’t matter because I don’t think rogues totem stomp very much anyways. If it was the totem glyph they would obviously need more than that, as it’s not a controlled mana burn but still. I liked the idea so there it was.

I have not really thought about druids but blizzard is always really talented at coming up with unique moves I’m sure they can think of something.

Things I don’t think would make a good mana burn:
All I can think of is that DoTs should not be mana burns, there is too much mana burn kitting involved in that. It would be mana burn, dot, run behind pillar and drink. Exactly what we’re trying to avoid.

To mana burn you have to be within LOS of the enemy and your casting spells so not out of combat regening, and you’re not drinking.

SOOO that was a really long post and to everybody who reads the whole thing, thank you.

It would be nice to see a list of ideas for mana burn moves. Also even though I think (if balanced correctly) mana burns for the healing specs would be great maybe I missed something. So if somebody has a well thought out reason why it wouldn’t work and almost completely fix the whole healers just to good in arena argument then I’d like to know too. Please no "lolz k! only a nub need teh burnz". Once again thanks for reading.

Edit - I posted this on the wow forums but I know allot of people who dont bother with wow forums but do read here, so I thought I'd post it here in hopes of a better discusion on the topic.

[SFJake]

No.

[TwistedPower]

No.

Y not?

[sadface]

I can feel your pain i dont like mana burn either but with the latest news from ghostcrawler saying there will be very little changes coming for wow in the near future.. i think priest are going to stay the same...

I f you really want to do something about it all you have ot do is ROLL a priest and do to other players what priest's have been doing to you.. I have a 70 UD priest atm and im loving it and i plan to mana burn the hell out of every1 at 80 in arena's while my rogue brother stunlocks them..

[Cruzader]

Out of all the healers in PVP, Preists go OOM the fastest.

But they have mana burn, so its all good.

LoS

[rathok]

While i do like the idea and i think its a great plan i dont know that it would work out particulartly well just with how the talent trees are setup and how some classes function (druids TOL). Great idea and all but i dont think blizzard thinks things are so broken that they need to add this to the game to fix it. Yes, its a good idea but their way is comperable and is already in place so it's just not gonna happen.

[Lucky_]

I can feel your pain i dont like mana burn either but with the latest news from ghostcrawler saying there will be very little changes coming for wow in the near future.. i think priest are going to stay the same...

Considering that they openly admitted that rogue-priest is brokenly OP at the moment in blue post, and that their philosophy of mid-season nerfs has changed to "do it" rather then "don't" of S5, I'd be looking forward to a hell lot more disc and muti nerfs at least.

Else we're going to have far worse of a season then S5. Back then you could make it on top with any class but warrior. Now, if you're not playing with a rogue, or a disc priest, you don't matter. And if you play both in 2s, you have hilarious advantage over everyone else.

Give me back shadowfrost/surv/affi facerolling over the current "I am an unkillable fortress and if you don't try to kill me anyway I burn your healer dry" priests any day. DKs were at least vulnerable to warlocks and hunters, rogues and priests were vulnerable to DKs and paladins, and warlocks and hunters were vulnerable to rogues and priests. Now, everyone is vulnerable to rogue-priest. Epic fail is epic, and this season makes last season seem like a great example of a balanced season.

[TwistedPower]

If every healer had a mana burn then all the healers would be brought up to disc priest level of play. I honestly dont think they are broke. They are where everybody should be.

[zsuper]

BRB, spamming Mana Burn on your Paladin who is being stunlocked by my Rogue out in the open while your Arms Warrior is spamming 3k white crits, 3k Overpowers, and 4k Mortal Strikes on me.

Because I'm a fortress or something.
And my Shields absorb like eight zillion damage, not 5000.
And I definitely don't need to spam heals to survive the Warrior's damage while I have Mortal Strike on me.
Yep, Disc Priests sure are tough to beat.



Oh wait..

[RSQRL]

No.

You obviously don't play a mage. This would make the class completely useless. As it stands to many people have ways of making us going completely OOM and you want there to be more. Give mages either water shield or mana drain and we can talk.

EDIT: Actually screw mana drain. Make that a viper sting that returns the mana stolen to us. We can't be standing still that long.

[sadface]

MS doesnt work on disc priests because they dont have to heal as much, they mitigate or absorb alot of dmg..

= MS doesn't work on disc priests :P

[Methion]

Sure give every healer a mana burn, and then, while ur at it
give priests a CC that isnt on a CD, like druids cyclone, and then ill take a snare plz, just like roots, also, a travel form would be nice, so that i can drink as often as a druid/shaman
also, i would like a bubble, and my shadowfiend/hymn of hope to be on a 1 min CD like divine plea, and stuns, and the ability to stop myself being slowed completely for a short time
and then just for kicks, why not give us a CC like hex, and a frost shock to make kiting easier, and then ill run away and drink

priests generally have alot less opportunities to get away and drink compared to other healers, they all have their abilities mana burn is one of ours, nd lets not forget we wear cloth, and every1 else has that to mitigate damage, and against rogues especially, that sucks when ur the only healing class ingame that cant get rid of poisons...

everytime i get to drink, its like 3 seconds before knobslobber/gravedigger/flatuum or some shit hits me, and with the water changes being implemented, i think mana burn is just fine considering u all get to drink

[Lucky_]

BRB, spamming Mana Burn on your Paladin who is being stunlocked by my Rogue out in the open while your Arms Warrior is spamming 3k white crits, 3k Overpowers, and 4k Mortal Strikes on me.

Because I'm a fortress or something.
And my Shields absorb like eight zillion damage, not 5000.
And I definitely don't need to spam heals to survive the Warrior's damage while I have Mortal Strike on me.
Yep, Disc Priests sure are tough to beat.



Oh wait..

No need to wait darling. You ARE a fortress. I have to carve my way through several thousands hit points worth of shields just to get a hit or two on you, which you will promptly (and largely passively) get healed by renew and PoM bouncing. After I actually manage to cut through all that crap and do enough damage, you stop chasing my healer for a second and channel penance. If you get interrupted, you got healed for 1/3-1/2 of your HP. If you didn't, you healed to near full or full depending on crits.

Funnily, we still roll over most of you in 2s at 2k+ atm, despite my massively undergeared paladin partner. Not because you're killable, but because disc priests at that level are hilariously bad. We're talking SF DKs at 2k+ bad multiplied by two at least. People who are so confident in their shields that they actually forget to use penance entirely, penance wrong targets, and just don't know how to mana burn properly, often all at the same time. It's suprisingly easy to outplay a bad priest, because when priest doesn't use his abilities correctly, he has to waste a lot of extra mana to survive. And with most of bads not knowing how to use SF and hymn properly, they OOM as a result.

And they are at 2k+. Do you know why? Because they ARE fortresses, in spite of being horrible players. They are, like most disc priests on the current ladder being carried by OPness of their class, just like DKs were in S5.
And the only reason they're not higher are arms warriors. Thank god for them being the only counter class to the "fortress class" disc priests.


And please let's not talk about good disc priests. They all went far beyond 2.4k+ in a week on most battlegroups, and they're not coming down till something is nerfed in a significant way. When you play against a good muti-disc pair, you know it, because they never let you gain any momentum - they have you by your balls from the first contact, till the moment your face hits the arena floor.

[onaqui]

Sure give every healer a mana burn, and then, while ur at it
give priests a CC that isnt on a CD, like druids cyclone, and then ill take a snare plz, just like roots, also, a travel form would be nice, so that i can drink as often as a druid/shaman
also, i would like a bubble, and my shadowfiend/hymn of hope to be on a 1 min CD like divine plea, and stuns, and the ability to stop myself being slowed completely for a short time
and then just for kicks, why not give us a CC like hex, and a frost shock to make kiting easier, and then ill run away and drink

priests generally have alot less opportunities to get away and drink compared to other healers, they all have their abilities mana burn is one of ours, nd lets not forget we wear cloth, and every1 else has that to mitigate damage, and against rogues especially, that sucks when ur the only healing class ingame that cant get rid of poisons...

everytime i get to drink, its like 3 seconds before knobslobber/gravedigger/flatuum or some shit hits me, and with the water changes being implemented, i think mana burn is just fine considering u all get to drink

When paired up with a rogue, you have all that and that's what's wrong.

[archform]

but then mana dps is gonna be in trouble