Whats up with lock threat reduction being horrible

[Tigercat]

Just wondering why warlocks have by far the worst threat reduction in the game. as affliction i spend 2 talent points getting 10 percent reduction in one school which ends up being around 6 to 7 percent reduction. we have the option of spending another 2 talent points to make it a full 10 percent. Almost every other class has way better threat reduction for talents. Also of the "pure" dps classes we have by far the worst aggro drop. Soulshatter costs a reagent drops up to 50 percent of your aggro and has a ridiculous cd 5 mins. hunters have feign death and misdirect one is a full aggro wipe with a shorter cd and the other transfers your hate to the tank. rogues have tricks which does the same thing while buffing tanks dmg and faint is almost spammable. mages have invisibilty on a 3 min cd full aggro wipe and mirror images which is a dps boost and aggro dump. The reagent cost is really bad when doing progression because i am using up to 4 shards a fight and if we are wiping gathering none. also we have bad talented aggro reduction and as afflic we have self healing which almost nullifies what we have. wtb more threat reduction and better aggro dump. /discuss possible solutions

Take it from someone that's spent over four years playing either a warrior or a shaman:

Shut the bloody fuck up.

[bigjenk]

Take it from someone that's spent over four years playing either a warrior or a shaman:

Shut the bloody fuck up.

Warrior i can agree with. Shaman i really laughed when i saw this. they have 30 percent aggro reduction from a little talent investment. a shaman should be able to do 2k more dps than me before ever running into aggro problems which just isnt happening or at least i have yet to see shaman in the high 7ks on non gimmick or aoe fights.

[Eudaimonia]

rogues don't use feint as threat reduction. at all, ever. it simply doesn't reduce enough threat to be noticeable, and isn't worth its cost.

[Asgard]

Threat never was a problem in my guild, would it be on naxx or ulduar. There are however some spots in Ulduar where you get to scream a bit about threat :
- hodir, where some caster (melees too but a bit less imo) can get 100% haste + 50% dmg + 135% crit dmg IIRC. This happens not so often. We're having troubles with it 'cuz we tank Hodir with a single tank FR-stuffed. So less expertise/hit indeed. But hand of salvation on DPSers without threat reduction (or a poor one) and it's OK.
- vezax. quite the same here casters are nuking the boss and the tank has to prepare intervention + CS the flame thing. There again a hand of salvation and it's ok.

BTW I play lock which has a poor threat reduction, but I also play feral as a tank (so I know what threat is tank-POV) and as a dps (we've got 0 threat reduction and 0 aggro dump except for a move that reduces our threat by around 500 with a 15sec CD or so... bullcrap).

[CookieEater]

But i DO pity warriors, no aggro reduction at all, at least we have soulshatter..

Sadly, they have a passive reduction built into their DPS stances. -20%, I believe?

[UnemMun]

Sadly, they have a passive reduction built into their DPS stances. -20%, I believe?

DPS done outside melee range has a 30% threat reduction, innately, unless it's been changed. Even so, warriors have no threat reducing abilities.

[smapty]

Not to sound snarky, but first off you probably do have a tank problem. Many guilds will tell you as their dps's average dps has progressed to 4k and beyond the tanks always outpace the TPS by a comfortable margin. Blizz put a lot of effort into making it that way, taking threat at least somewhat out of the equation. We have a bear tank I've only managed to overthreat standing in a couple of Maly's sparks, and I generally do pretty insane dps if I do say so myself, and start afflicting like crazy the second he first scowls at the boss.

That being said... ok, you're stuck with the tanks you've got. As others have said, waiting a little while before dps'ing can be pretty huge... this might be stating the obvious, but here's why:

Soulshatter reduces a percentage of your threat, meaning the longer you wait, the better it is. If you start the second your tank does, and race past him at 20k where you're forced to shatter, you've only reduced 10k threat and may find yourself back in trouble. On the other hand, if you do a slow five count then start nuking, you may be able to race the tank up to 100k or more, meaning suddenly your shatter is worth 50k threat, hopefully giving your tank enough of a lead to get you through the fight. If you catch him with that kind of lead, then yea, it really is time for a tank workshop.

All that being said, if Blizz wants to give us a shatter on a shorter cooldown, I'd happily take it.

[Bakis]

Tank problem my ass, any warlock with equal gear as the tank will get theatproblems.

It's not the regular fight but damn, Genearl in Ulda, I set my ass inside one cloud and im fucked while boomkin, mages got like 3k more dps cos of burst and a bit more damage done and not even close to my threat. 10% suck, vigalence doesnt do much, beg for salvation macro is the best solution hehe along with /dance

[Lazykoala]

i miss the blessing of 30% less threat

[CrimsonRipper]

its likely your tank not generating enough threat.

I've seen tanks get tons of threat within the first few seconds of a fight. Shaking them off threat would require something ridiculous like going Metamorphosis and taunting (why do we really even have that ability anyways? Armor bonus aside We're CLOTH), or spamming Searing Pain for your dps (which is the least smartest thing I've seen done, unless youre in pvp... then its hit or miss.

[Gruscovac]

UnemMun, it's not a 30% threat reduction, it's that they need 130% tank threat to pull aggro, so it's just more of a breathing space rather than a reduction of any kind.

Some fights this extra isn't useable anyway due to boss mechanics as anyone over tank threat will get immunity to boss ability x which the tank could then get and get killed by...

[mmff4]

Why do you need more aggro reduction?

[Bakis]

Is it just me feeling that the gap between tank TPS - dps TPS got eaten up since TBC?
Never had much issues with Brutallus when built around a optimized soulshatter. In Wrath I found myself in a horrible threatsituation all the way from gearing up in heroics -> 10man gear -> 25man gear -> Ulda gear.

??? :-\

[xlord]

have the same problem, atm its more like waiting 10sec so i dont get past the tank with threat.
if i wait a few sec i start firing and if im luck (or may call it unlucky) i make 3 crits and lots and lots of threat received. if i didnt crit there wouldnt be a problem but atm you make way tomuch threat with crits.
(and im only deep destro with just 1890sp, so wonder how people with even more sp do it cos i need to use shatter alot)

[Bakis]

2442 dps on Brutallus at lvl70, was tricky but doable with a good soulshatter.

at lvl80 2 early crits as deepdestro in 25man gear and a destrolock is fucked up and need to /dance for quit some time, annoying... especially when seeing mages and boomkins having much more crits, more damage done (cos they dont need to /dance) and still way under myself in threat.

10% threat reduction just dont cut it, we really need more or am i suposed to subscribe on vigalence and press my whisper-for-salvation-macro 30 secs into a fight? *shrug*

[Mstone86]

Arms Warriors dont have any threat reduction, but fury does in improved Beserker stance

[gherkin]

To clarify the dps to threat information around here on melee vs casters.

Ranged deals 1 damage = 1 threat base.
Melee deals 1 damage = .8 threat base.
Rogues and Cat Form Druids get 1 = .71

This is pre-modifiers, and due to the fact that melee pull aggro 20% sooner. Example, Battle and Zerker stance make you generate .8 threat per 1 damage. Improved Zerker is .7 threat per 1 damage.

[Trollpatrol]

Take it from someone that's spent over four years playing either a warrior or a shaman:

Shut the bloody fuck up.

[Digkilla]

I always save my hand of salvation for warlocks, except on fights like razor where hunters cant feign death.

Generally doesnt keep them off the top, but helps significantly.

[Surfd]

Did you know that if your tank is paying attention, it is 100% impossible to pull threat off of a boss that is tauntable.

If the boss is tauntable, and someone reaches threat on par with the tank, the tank can simply add a Taunt into his tanking rotation every 20 or 30 seconds, and unless you suddenly spike MASSIVE damage while taunt is on cooldown, it will be completely impossible to pull off the tank.