Hypermodes Guide to Pug Raidleading

[Deleted]

I am making this guide because of the increased amount of posts from posters who say they cannot possibly find an raid run because either the raidleaders asks for insane stats which can only (Ironically) be achieved from the instance your going to, or they are asking for the achievement which you don't have because again you havn't seen the instance yet on this character but have done it on a friend/alt/main or whatever.
If the person im describing is you, or if you just cannot find a guild to go to naxx with, then this guide is made for you.

I will be going step by step on how to get an raid group going as a skilled yet unachieved and moderatly geared player by starting one yourself.
This is basicly a list of tips you can use while leading a raid.
1. Getting the group
a. Recruiting trough LFG tool
Getting a group is easier then many seem to think, most people assume that you need an entire legion of friends or guildies who are all in full t8 in order to attract decent pugs, this isn't true.
You start of by the way you would start a heroic group, by looking into the LookingForGroup tool and seeing what is in there.
You whisper most of those players either with a short ''stats/achief?'' or make a macro with ''I am starting a naxx25 run, if you want to come please whisper me your stats/achievement''
Having this macro makes recruiting people in the LFG way easier, since people like looking at long messages and think you care to get them into your group, so they will more likely link their stats and achievements to you and get invited.

b. The Lookginforgroup and Trade Channel
Once you have all decently geared people from the naxx25 LFG, you can start spamming LookingforGroup and Trade, again use a macro for a long and well-looking message.
My personal macro looks something like this:
/2 LFM Naxx25, aiming full clear, whisper me stats+achievements for invite
/4 LFM Naxx25, aiming full clear, whisper me stats+achievements for invite

c. Which people to take
You will find people streaming into your pug by just doing this macro every ~30 or so seconds.
Under no circumstances spam this macro, because if you spam it trough the trade people will dislike you and hardly ever join your groups.
If a person whispers you with ''4000 AP 30% Crit and hit capped, <insert achievement here> just invite them, don't bother about their stats if they are perfect or not, if a person has taken the effort to look up his stats for you and not just say ''inv me'' he usually knows what hes doing.
For naxx25 the stats I usually aim for are
Casters: ~1500 SP, hit capped
Healers: ~1600 SP, 20k+ mana as pala/sham, ~16 as priest/druid
Melee: 3k+ AP, hit cap 30% crit
Tanks: 29K+unbuffed def capped

c. More LFG tool uses
If you donot have a full group from getting the people out of your naxx heroic LFG and spamming trade for a while, consider looking into the other tabs of the raid LFG tool, and just randomly whisper people of the class/spec you still need and see if they wanna come, chances are that people are looking for more raids then the one they are in atm.

d. Other Pugs
Never ever ever start a group when you know there is another pug recruiting aswell, this will make players much more picky, and if they donot like you, your gear, the amount of players you currently have or someone currently in your group, they are more likely to leave.

2. Group composition
1. There are a couple of things you need to think about when making groups for naxx25 (as example).
In naxx25 this is the most commonly used group setup:
5-6 Healers
3-4 Tanks
15-17 DPS
It really helps to have a few players with good dualspecs who can do both, for instance you only need 2 tanks for 90% of the bosses while having 4 tanks on 4H is heavily recommended, same for healers really.
You can usually promise those people who actually do have 2 well-equiped dualspecs and willing to use them the privilege of being able to get ''mainspec'' items for both specs
2. For some fights special gimmics are needed, in the case of naxx25 thats the requirement for 2 priests for MCing Instructor
3. Never invite someone of your own spec, unless your really desperate, but don't prohibit to many players either because of your own greed.
Don't be to greedy though, because if you refuse to many players people will start noticing it and you don't want them to leave you because your a lootwhore.
As a Holy paladin I usually try not to invite any other holy paladins nor resto shamans.

3 Getting Started
a. When your raid is full, always go as first to the meeting stone and go assist in summoning, just summon everyone and if people decline their summons ask them howcome, never ever await a summon as a raidleader because that comes across as lazyness, which might cause people to leave you
b. Buffing really doesn't require that much effort, just ask every class to do their respective buffs, the only buffs that require some management are the paladin buffs, so check which paladin got which buff improved, ask them to buff that specific buff (Retris got imp might, holys imp wisdom and prots got sanc), make a macro somewhere along the lines of
/rw XX is buffing YY
/rw XX is buffing YY
whisper paladin if your missing said buff
It will save you alot of hassle, just hit this macro before and after every boss.
c. Choosing the wing is the thing you and then only you should do, ignore the people who whisp you or say ''Plx do XX wing 1st'' because that usually means they are only interested in said wing and will leave you once your done in there.
d. The wings you usually start with are either arachnid or construct, if you feel like you have a good group you must do construct first because patchwerk is the hardest of the 4 1st bosses, if you want to lock people first to earn their loyalty go do arachnid for some easy loot.

4. How to look like you know what your doing
Eventually someone is gonna inspect you, but 90% of those people don't know whats good or whats bad gear if you have epics with a label of level 80 attached to them or even a couple of rares, what people do know is enchants/gems, so if you have good (rare) gems and not incredibly cheap enchants on each of your armor, people will most likely think you have good gear, so always make sure your enchants/gems are fine.

5. During the Run

a. Bossloots, the way bossloots are distributed in my pug is basicly the following:
I link an item in chat and say:''<Insert Item here> roll please
and then count to 5 and then go
<Insert Item here> going to <Insert player here> in 5
4
3
2
1
Loot item, rinse&repeat
If nobody needs an item (which is rare in naxx25 pugs) do the same but the ''offspecs roll please'' and if noone really needs it go DE (Have seen that happen once in 2 raids) the Item and emediatly raidroll the shard.
For BoP epics I use Mainspec>Offspec>De+RR shard
For BoE epics I use Mainspec>RR Item
If you give someone a BoE epic for his mainspec, always make sure to check if he is using it, otherwise kick him.

b. Replacing noobs
Even though you try to filter carefully there is always a big chance you will have 1-2 noobs in your group, if someone calls them out and says ''XX has blue gear'' or even says ''noob with blue gear here wtf'' ask the player who said that who he means and then check his gear and if its subpar whisper him if he thinks he can handle the instance, if he says he can do it, monitor him during the first boss and if he indeed is as good keep him, otherwise kick.
Donot under any circumstances go play the internet toughguy and shout at them trough raid chat, always keep this in whispers.
If you want to replace some horrible performing player, please kick him after the boss, because 90% of the people slack on trash yet do great damage on bosses.

c. Disputes amongst players
If there is, for whatever reason, an argument between players, try to sort it trough whispers, don't go arguing in /raid because again people won't like this.
If there is really an impossible to solve problem between 2 players try to fish out who backs who and if they are willing to leave for their friend, side with the biggest group and replace the people who leave after you kicked the leader of the smallest group, only use this as a last resort though

d. Elitist superstars
If you know how to make your group attractive as has been described in earlier topics, you are bound to have some uldu geared people who are in naxx25 for 1-2 small upgrades and absolutely steamroll the dps meters with ~5k+ dps on patchwerk.
Always make sure you are nice to them, make a chat with them and try to make them get their (hopefully equally geared) guildies in so they can carry you.
Always make sure you keep those as friends and kick them really if they isolate themselves and are acting like complete retards

e. Keeping Items to yourself
Usually you want to be rewarded for your efforts of creating and leading the raid, so you would like to ''reserve'' some Items to yourself.
If you do this remember 3 things:
1. don't reserve highly sought items (therefore reserving TTT is a really bad Idea since about 30% of the raid is gonna want it and hate you for doing it)
2. don't reserve to much, usually people don't mind you taking 1-2 items spread out over the entire run for your effort, but if to much is reserved they cba comming anymore


Well this was It for my guide, hope you enjoyed reading my wallotext and that you learn something from it, here are some short random tips:
-Friend good players who come with your pug to ask them for next time
-Make your pugs every week on the same time so you become a wellknown factor
-NEVER EVER EVER start recruiting if theres another pug for the same instance around
-This guide is quite Ideally for stormscale where there are loads of good puggers avaible, but is also applicable for other realms
-ALL the current gear I have has been obtained by non-guild runs (check armory if you like, look for hagrimash)


If you have any questions/suggestions/additions please post them here

[wordup]

4k+ AP unbuffed for a number of melee classes is unreachable amounts unless they're sitting in ulduar gear.
Hell, I'm an enhancement shaman and only broke 4k AP after getting a few upgrades in ulduar25.
Change it and I'll remove the post, np.

[Barnagma]

20k mana for healers is abit to much as well, im in ulduar gear and im around 18k unbuffed

[Deleted]

Editted both, requirements I meant were for pala/sham and for melee dps (aka rogue/war/dk/ret) didn't include hunter/enhance into that because they both have different multipliers from AP

[Soulssong]

As far as ninjaing for yourself, it will go a lot easier if you post what you will be taking for yourself at the beginning of the run so people know what to expect.

I know I would be ticked if I was running naxx for just one or two items and you take said item for yourself if I was under the impression that I would be able to roll on it as well.

[Elvarg]

Also, 3k RAP for hunters is silly easy, due to AotDH and lots of scale talents. You should aim for hunters with 4k+ imo.

[Fosorrow]

The stats you want are a bit rediculous. You don't need anywhere near that for a good run through. It is much more about skill than gear, there is a point where no matter how much skill you have, your gear will hinder you, but you pass that after you get blues from heroics pretty much. Achievement link is nice because it shows they saw it, but making sure people know bossfights is better IMO.

Also, 4k is quite high for a few melee/physical classes. Rogues do not get that much without great gear either, not sure about warriors/pallys etc however. Also "hit capped" is quite general as well. Rogues aim for poison hit cap, not melee hit cap, Enhance aims for spell hit cap, warriors (afaik) want the specials hit cap usually. Also, expertise is an important stat for some people, like Enhance shamans. Because of all of this variability, it makes "link me your stats" kind of irrelevant unless you know a substantial amount about every class.

If your gunna raidlead, you have to be prepared for people to be upset with your lootmaster process, and people will call you a ninja no matter what. Many people only care about loot from the last boss, so ninja'ing from there isn't a great idea. If you are going to do that, you might want to make it known before you start for damage control. Catering to people with good gear will help your dps, but if they are being an ass and forcing you to be one to defend them, then pissing off 5+ people who collectively do more dps than the superstar is worse than pissing off the superstar IMO. Also, if you wait till after the first boss to kick someone, that's a pretty dick move too. You wait to get them saved, so they have no hope anymore to complete the instance now. Nothing wrong with helping a couple people out, as long as that number isn't huge.

Just some of my thoughts on what you wrote... :P

[Azharok]

4k+ AP unbuffed for a number of melee classes is unreachable amounts unless they're sitting in ulduar gear.
Hell, I'm an enhancement shaman and only broke 4k AP after getting a few upgrades in ulduar25.
Change it and I'll remove the post, np.

I second that, I have good gear as RET, I can steamroll naxx 25 but I don't have 4k AP.

3k2 is MORE than enough to steamroll naxx25.

edit : I run with 3663 AP, hit capped and nearly exp cap.

[Melonberry]

Those numbers are aparently if you want to be carried. They are crazy high for naxx.

[kuralor]

At 3.2k AP its worth arms warriors to start going for the Arp cap.

[haiitsme]

Epic!

Theres even a small guide to ninja´ing loot!

[Azharok]

At 3.2k AP its worth arms warriors to start going for the Arp cap.

BiS Rets should be sitting at 4400AP, so asking for people with 4k to run naxx25 for upgrades ( lol ?) is just silly.

[Gzilia]

arent you that gay guy that was flamed for wanting a + hit item as healer, over a mage ?

[Deleted]

arent you that gay guy that was flamed for wanting a + hit item as healer, over a mage ?

absolutely nothing to do with the topic...
good guide although some dps requirements area a bit insane ^^

[Deleted]

The stats you want are a bit rediculous. You don't need anywhere near that for a good run through. It is much more about skill than gear, there is a point where no matter how much skill you have, your gear will hinder you, but you pass that after you get blues from heroics pretty much. Achievement link is nice because it shows they saw it, but making sure people know bossfights is better IMO.

Also, 4k is quite high for a few melee/physical classes. Rogues do not get that much without great gear either, not sure about warriors/pallys etc however. Also "hit capped" is quite general as well. Rogues aim for poison hit cap, not melee hit cap, Enhance aims for spell hit cap, warriors (afaik) want the specials hit cap usually. Also, expertise is an important stat for some people, like Enhance shamans. Because of all of this variability, it makes "link me your stats" kind of irrelevant unless you know a substantial amount about every class.

If your gunna raidlead, you have to be prepared for people to be upset with your lootmaster process, and people will call you a ninja no matter what. Many people only care about loot from the last boss, so ninja'ing from there isn't a great idea. If you are going to do that, you might want to make it known before you start for damage control. Catering to people with good gear will help your dps, but if they are being an ass and forcing you to be one to defend them, then pissing off 5+ people who collectively do more dps than the superstar is worse than pissing off the superstar IMO. Also, if you wait till after the first boss to kick someone, that's a pretty dick move too. You wait to get them saved, so they have no hope anymore to complete the instance now. Nothing wrong with helping a couple people out, as long as that number isn't huge.

Just some of my thoughts on what you wrote... :P

editted the ninja part to reserving items, and Like I said about defending superstars, if they make themselves impossible ofcourse your gonna kick him, the thing about waiting till someone is locked isn't meant as a punishment but more as a check to see if someone isnt slacking on trash but is good on a boss, ofcourse you can carry a few people around. but having ~2k dps nablets in your raid who need everything tends to be abit annoying aswell

[teckno]

You should change the Title to:
"Hypermodes Guide to Pug Raidleading as a Ninja Looter"

[Azharok]

4. How to look like you know what your doing
Eventually someone is gonna inspect you, but 90% of those people don't know whats good or whats bad gear if you have epics with a label of level 80 attached to them or even a couple of rares, what people do know is enchants/gems, so if you have good (rare) gems and not incredibly cheap enchants on each of your armor, people will most likely think you have good gear, so always make sure your enchants/gems are fine.

If you're running with a raid that has stats like you are looking for, you can remove this bit .

[Deleted]

Ninja Edit

[Azharok]

Just pointing out that alot of people on this forum aren't native english.

[tlitd]

For naxx25 the stats I usually aim for are
Casters: ~1700 SP, hit capped
Healers: ~1800 SP, 20k+ mana as pala/sham, ~16 as priest/druid
Melee dps: 4k AP, 30% crit, hit capped
Tanks: 29K+unbuffed, def capped

• dps casters reach 1700 SP (completely unbuffed) without a single ilvl 213+ item
• the only melee spec/class able to reach 4000 AP (completely unbuffed) are HAT rogues, assuming no ulduar gear is available

basically, you are asking for naxx10-geared dps casters and ulduar25-geared melee dps