Warrior 51 pt Tanking Talent

[Antiqueth]

better than the arms 51 point talent that nerfs all damage by 10%

Fail.

Arms = Bladestorm

Fury = Titan's Grip.

Titan's Grip = 10% damage nerf

Arms has no 10% damage nerf talent, kthx

[Jathine]

Can you tell me how shockwave helps you when your tankign the boss, Im tired of people not reading this thread.

You apparently know next to nothing about how warrior threat is generated these days. The majority of our threat comes from actually doing damage now. Shockwave is part of the highest threat rotation for a prot warrior, yes, even against a single target. Conc Blow is also in the highest TPS rotation for warriors as well, but you have to use them properly so that you don't screw yourself over.

Conc Blow and Shockwave replace the second Devastate in the standard SS, Rev, Devax2 rotation if you weren't lucky enough to get a Sword and Board proc. This is if you have the Sunder effect already stacked up. The reason behind this is that the second Devastate doesn't do as much damage or threat as either Conc Blow or Shockwave, and the second Devastate won't increase the number of Shield Slams you can get out even if you get a Sword and Board proc. The GCD will limit you to getting the Shield Slam right as it would have naturally came off cooldown if you get a SnB proc off the second Devastate.

The only draw back of Shockwave is the 10 yard range on the cone. If the boss is too large you cannot hit him with the Shockwave. If that is the case it should be removed from the rotation. Otherwise, it should be included.

Devastate should be replaced by higher damage moves once you have the Sunder effect up on the boss. Devastate is one of your lowest threat moves once the 5 stacks of Sunder have been put up. You goal in maximizing threat is to replace as many Devastates with higher damage/threat moves as often as possible.

You have a long way to go before you should start judging talents if you don't understand these concepts.

[vermmn]

You apparently know next to nothing about how warrior threat is generated these days. The majority of our threat comes from actually doing damage now. Shockwave is part of the highest threat rotation for a prot warrior, yes, even against a single target. Conc Blow is also in the highest TPS rotation for warriors as well, but you have to use them properly so that you don't screw yourself over.

Conc Blow and Shockwave replace the second Devastate in the standard SS, Rev, Devax2 rotation if you weren't lucky enough to get a Sword and Board proc. This is if you have the Sunder effect already stacked up. The reason behind this is that the second Devastate doesn't do as much damage or threat as either Conc Blow or Shockwave, and the second Devastate won't increase the number of Shield Slams you can get out even if you get a Sword and Board proc. The GCD will limit you to getting the Shield Slam right as it would have naturally came off cooldown if you get a SnB proc off the second Devastate.

The only draw back of Shockwave is the 10 yard range on the cone. If the boss is too large you cannot hit him with the Shockwave. If that is the case it should be removed from the rotation. Otherwise, it should be included.

Devastate should be replaced by higher damage moves once you have the Sunder effect up on the boss. Devastate is one of your lowest threat moves once the 5 stacks of Sunder have been put up. You goal in maximizing threat is to replace as many Devastates with higher damage/threat moves as often as possible.

You have a long way to go before you should start judging talents if you don't understand these concepts.

dam it you beat me to it.
yes shockwave is good against single targets.
who ever thinks otherwise, go reroll a dps

[mxpsych]

The warrior tanks in my guild pulls more single targetTPS than any of the other tanks, save for a druid who keeps his dps gear on.

When we want the tank that is going to pull the most immediate and sustained threat on a single target to tank, it's always the warrior.

They've never once complained about their TPS.

Maybe the people you run with are notoriously poor at watching threat, or maybe you're just doing it wrong. Or maybe nothing is wrong with your TPS at all and you just feel unfulfilled if you don't have something to complain about.

[Sausagefan]

When we want the tank that is going to pull the most immediate and sustained threat on a single target to tank, it's always the warrior.

lolwut

[sanguineraven]

You are clearly stubborn and won't listen to what people are telling you. Stop telling them to read the thread or L2P since it sounds like you are the one that needs to learn a few things.

Your trying to say an AoE ability is a boost to our single target threat? L2P

You say an AoE ability doesn't do anything for single target threat yet that's exactly what Hammer of Righteousness is. Both that and Consecration are part of the optimal TPS/DPS rotation for a Prot Paladin and a lot of their single target threat comes from this just as you will still get DPS/TPS out of Shockwave. But let me guess "it's different for paladins" right?

Its easy to see that this 51 pt talent was meant for us to AoE tank trash better, while the other classes still produce much higher AoE threat than use.

You mention Shockwave was meant for you to AoE tank better but then negate that since other classes do more AoE threat than you. They are mutually exclusive. It DOES help you in AoE situations regardless of changes to other classes, stop crying that you aren't some mega-AoE-tanking machine

Its well known that pallies are an AoE tanking class, none takes a pally for single target threat

In TBC maybe but that's not strictly true anymore. All tanks are capable of AoE tanking and it is no longer a Paladin niche. Warriors actually have more frontload burst AoE threat than Paladins, they just have less sustained threat. Death Knights are also great AoE tanks so your notion of Paladins being an AoE tanking class are a bit off. Warriors were often preferred for Whelpling tanking on Sartharion 3D for the burst TPS since Paladins would rely on the adds passing through consecrate just as it 'ticked' to get any threat on them.

Secondly, have you even seen a Paladin single-target tanking? Currently they produce insanely high threat if geared/played properly and are often using for threat-sensitive hard mode fights where you really don't want to be capping your DPS.

we arent strong for survivability, compare us to the high health of druids and the avoidance of DKs along with their CDs

right so you want the high health of druids, the avoidance and CDs of DKs and the sustained AoE threat of Paladins and DKs. Warriors are excellent well rounded tanks with a great toolset. You have a lot of utility on dealing with different encounters, use that to your advantage.

And were still the lowest on the totem pole in AoE tanking, its more than easy for the other clases to out AoE tps us

Again, you are only lowest because you let yourself be. If you are the first tank into a group of trash and can let go a couple GCDs of your AoE abilities I guarantee you it will be a different outcome in the number of mobs you are tanking. You have front-loaded burst AoE, use that to your advantage. If you beat a Paladin to the group the only mobs you will lose are maybe those that are hit by Avenger's Shield. By the time consecrate gets ticking you will already have a threat lead established.

Fleshpeeler advised you to use what you've got and your response was:

SKill only goes so far, you should know that if you have played this game before

Clearly you lack that skill. I've played with equally geared Warriors who can keep up on AoE trash provided they are on the ball. They are happy Blizzard acknowledged the AoE weakness and has given them a powerful tool (seriously, an AoE stun is very nice!). Played correctly Warriors can put out decent single target threat and have more on-demand mitigation than some other tanks.

Seriously, you are only complaining because you want to complain and then ignore when people tell you the class is fine and you aren't utilizing it properly. I bet you are quietly ignoring the 4-pc T8 bonus that Warriors have that leaves the other tank set bonuses in the dust?

Be thankful for what you've got and spend more time trying to work out how to use it better than complaining about it.

[Jathine]

Seriously, you are only complaining because you want to complain and then ignore when people tell you the class is fine and you aren't utilizing it properly. I bet you are quietly ignoring the 4-pc T8 bonus that Warriors have that leaves the other tank set bonuses in the dust?

Be thankful for what you've got and spend more time trying to work out how to use it better than complaining about it.

I think you put too much emphasis on the 4p T8 bonus for Prot warriors. It definitely has its situational uses namely Hodir, Mimiron, and Yogg plus a few others to a very limited degree. So far I have yet to run into a situation outside of Mimiron where I wished I had the 4p bonus. Even then my guild has managed to get by without me having the T8 4p bonus and we're sitting with Yogg25 at 45%.

This is mainly because the T8 set for warriors is pretty horribly itemized due to overzealous stacking of block stats. The helm is basically worthless, the legs leave something to be desired compared to the Legplates of Sovereignty, the chest is really just the best option available (but that says more about the lack of chest options), the shoulders are easily best in slot and the gloves are a decent piece as well. The T8 set is basically comprised of 1 horrible piece, 2 mediocre at best pieces, 1 decent piece, and 1 BiS piece. You are having to take a rather large downgrade for your legs just to get to the 4p bonus, and a hit to your threat when you use the T8 gloves over T7. The T8 shoulders are the only clear upgrade in the set.

The biggest killer for the T8 set is the fact that the 2p bonus is absolutely weak when compared to the T7 2p bonus. A 10% crit increase to Devastate vs. a 10% increase in Shield Slam damage. I would much rather have the 10% increase for ~25% of my overall damage output than a 10% increase in ~8-10% of my total output. The T7 2p bonus is ~3 times more powerful than the T8 2p bonus.

[shags the penguin]

There is nothing wrong with shockwave.
So what that we cant always use it, we cant disarm every fight, the stun on imp revenge is almost no use on bosses, the stun on con blow is useless for bosses and we cant spell reflect everything so does it matter ? not really.

Thing is we dont need another single target ability, we need to be able to handle every type of trash/boss that is thrown at us or we would be useless, shockwave helps us on AOE tanking and i think is a great talent.

As for it not getting used so much, well think how many packs of trash did you clear on the way to that boss ? thats when it is useful.

[sah303136]

if you dont want it dont take it =p
but uhh prot pallys hammer isnt the best like people said its pretty bad damage really
Druids get a mostly cat talent with some burst threat use
DKS get a : nerfed as hell move that does not give you threat,
Amazing Aoe move Similar to yours
An ok AoE move
honestly id take shockwave over everything but HB =p

[frankster]

You do more single target threat if you use shockwave appropriately than if you don't.

It seems perfectly fine.

[kuralor]

You apparently know next to nothing about how warrior threat is generated these days. The majority of our threat comes from actually doing damage now. Shockwave is part of the highest threat rotation for a prot warrior, yes, even against a single target. Conc Blow is also in the highest TPS rotation for warriors as well, but you have to use them properly so that you don't screw yourself over.

Conc Blow and Shockwave replace the second Devastate in the standard SS, Rev, Devax2 rotation if you weren't lucky enough to get a Sword and Board proc. This is if you have the Sunder effect already stacked up. The reason behind this is that the second Devastate doesn't do as much damage or threat as either Conc Blow or Shockwave, and the second Devastate won't increase the number of Shield Slams you can get out even if you get a Sword and Board proc. The GCD will limit you to getting the Shield Slam right as it would have naturally came off cooldown if you get a SnB proc off the second Devastate.

The only draw back of Shockwave is the 10 yard range on the cone. If the boss is too large you cannot hit him with the Shockwave. If that is the case it should be removed from the rotation. Otherwise, it should be included.

Devastate should be replaced by higher damage moves once you have the Sunder effect up on the boss. Devastate is one of your lowest threat moves once the 5 stacks of Sunder have been put up. You goal in maximizing threat is to replace as many Devastates with higher damage/threat moves as often as possible.

You have a long way to go before you should start judging talents if you don't understand these concepts.

qft

[czechx]

this guy probably thinks devestate does higher threat than shockwave

or more damage


lol wut


might i remind you of the tank priority list on a single boss threat rotation :

Shield Slam > Revenge > Concussion Blow > Shockwave > Devesate

heroic strike spam while rage allows.


how is shockwave bad? its not

only problem i run into is certain older bosses (havent gotten to tank a lot in ulduar because i went shaman) is that on like maexxna and sapphiron off the top of my head, shockwave doesn't reach them.

other than that its great, stop being bad.

[plagueshard]

4) Deep blood is a viable tanking spec for DKs, so you can consider it.

Wrong, you can't consider DRW as a tank. At all. It's a DPS talent straight up, it offers a tank nothing. In fact, if you have DRW as a tank you should probably slap yourself.

[Syrada]

Heroic Throw Threat > Devestate Threat. GG

[quote] Raid buffed AP is probably a bit under 5k, lets say 4800. So HT would be 2400, *.7 (rough armor reduction), ~1680 Heroic Throw damage.

Devastate is Damage + 5% ap, 5% of 4800 is 240, so 730+240 or just about 1000 threat.

As we can see, Heroic Throw is already going to do a lot more threat for that one gcd. 1680 Heroic Throw damage * 1.5 = 2520 threat.

1000 vs 2500, this is before the defensive stance multiplier which is applied to both

The only things left to cover, which should balance, are: Heroic Throw costs no rage to use, however it has a 1 minute cooldown, and does reset your swing timer. The free rage cost and more than double threat component should make it worth it.

[Xenryusho]

I don't know what you're smoking shock wave is a major part of our rotation if you're doing it right (filling a spot that otherwise would be limited to concussion) however I do believe it should be changed to a warrior centered effect (like thunder clap) and instead of stun reduce the chance to be hit by melee attacks by 25% for the duration. That would make me happy...

Actually you're not smoking anything that should be what happens.

After posting my opinion I read this post

Id appreciate it if youd actually read the thread rather than the title, havign it be useful in 5 out of all of the ulduar fights does not make it a good talent, and its only good TPS when you have adds to tank, and the amount of mass mobs for ulduar trash isnt that large. Popping it during a boss like XT is really a waste of GCD and you cant use it to help with healbots if your tanking. Your trying to say an AoE ability is a boost to our single target threat? L2P

If you're a warrior please quit the class or at least tanking..It does increase our single target threat. And it is NOT EVER EVER EVER a waste of a GCD unless you're going to die and Shield wall is no longer off the GCD ..Which I doubt will ever be the case.

However I would still like to see it changed a bit I don't really like the stun it's annoying alot of the time, yea it's useful too but meh.

[Angeal]

I dont think prot warriors need any changes at the moment, were fine as we are imo (in regards to spells and talents) Shockwave really helps out with AoE tanking and im glad about the minimal changes to the spec in recent patches. Although thunderclap is pretty inferior to Death and decay and consecration, damage and threat wise, but still its nothing to QQ about or ask for buffs or others to be nerfed.

I would on the other hand like for warriors to get abit more avoidance or stamina as Dk's get the stamina benifit from frost prescence and comm shout. But again its not a mojor problem we need to kick up a fuss about, All tanks are finally equal in regards to everyday tanking.

[Dokoran]

Can you tell me how shockwave helps you when your tankign the boss, Im tired of people not reading this thread.

Warriors don't need any help tanking a boss, a warrior that is having issues keeping threat and staying alive on a boss fight is a shitty warrior, as quite honestly, we have a LOT in our arsenal to keep us up on most fights, the only fights DK's really outshine warriors on are on fights where the boss has high damaging magical attacks, other than that, we're better off than any other tank, if you don't agree...well....then you're a shitty warrior.

Our TPS on a single target is top notch, thus adding a 51pt talent that helps us even more on boss fights would honestly be OP, we do fine as is. I could maybe see adding some kind of "magical barrier" type thing, which seems to be the closest thing to a weak point we have on boss fights, but then THAT would be situational as well.

In the end...the 51pt talent is fine, you're in the minority thinking it needs to be removed/revamped etc, believe me, a lot of warriors /squeed when we saw Shockwave in the prot tree, it was something we desperately needed. Is it "zomg amazing" no, it's not, is it useful in 80% of the situations warriors are in? Yes. Believe me, there are FAR worse 51 point talents in this game [ie: Demo warlock, shadow priest lawl.]

[Fuggle]

Lol, inb4 terrible excuse for why everybody else's thought-out reasoning is wrong.

[Deleted]

Warriors don't need any help tanking a boss, a warrior that is having issues keeping threat and staying alive on a boss fight is a shitty warrior, as quite honestly, we have a LOT in our arsenal to keep us up on most fights, the only fights DK's really outshine warriors on are on fights where the boss has high damaging magical attacks, other than that, we're better off than any other tank, if you don't agree...well....then you're a shitty warrior.

Our TPS on a single target is top notch, thus adding a 51pt talent that helps us even more on boss fights would honestly be OP, we do fine as is. I could maybe see adding some kind of "magical barrier" type thing, which seems to be the closest thing to a weak point we have on boss fights, but then THAT would be situational as well.

In the end...the 51pt talent is fine, you're in the minority thinking it needs to be removed/revamped etc, believe me, a lot of warriors /squeed when we saw Shockwave in the prot tree, it was something we desperately needed. Is it "zomg amazing" no, it's not, is it useful in 80% of the situations warriors are in? Yes. Believe me, there are FAR worse 51 point talents in this game [ie: Demo warlock, shadow priest lawl.]

It all depends on the situation. Threat can obviously be a problem on certain fights, and same goes for survability. It does not however mean the warrior is doing something wrong. So please, get off your high horse just becuse you personally haven't experienced a moment in which you played with good DPS and low healers due to a high DPS requirement.

[Hattai]

if warriors are so bad, and every tank is so good, reroll and stop crying