TPS: Imp. Mangle vs Natural Shapeshifter

[Deleted]

Assuming you have to pick one of those talents, which would give more threat per second on average?

[Captain Midnight]

Imp. Mangle should, as long as you take the complete 3/3, provide a greater increase in TPS.

[Deleted]

Master shapeshifter adds 4% damage to everything, Imp. mangle only affects.. well, mangle.

Mangle, by now, is just a debuff skill these days. Looking at a random WWS (10 man), my averege maul hits for 2600 (5413 max crit, quite often with 40% crit), and my mangle hits for 1537 averege and crits for up to 3000 damage.

On the fight i am looking at (Assembly of Iron), maul is 58% of my overall DPS (and it has a massive threat modifier) and mangle is a mere 15% of my overall DPS (with only a minor threat modifier, compared to maul). Lacerate is 19%, for your refrence.

I find that i often want to use my GCDs on keeping lacerate and demo roar up. I would much rather increase damage on an ability that does over three times as much damage, and even more threat, than mangle, and Master Shapeshifter has the benefit of buffing every ability - mangle included.

Assuming that i use mangle every GCD, my DPS from mangle is the following:

With Master Shapeshifter: 1537 / 6 = 256 DPS
With improved mangle: 1477 / 4,5 = 328 DPS
Improved mangle gives another 72 DPS from my mangle.

On the fight in question, i did 2014 DPS. If i remove Master Shapeshifter (4%) i do 1936 DPS, which is a difference of 77,5 DPS.

It might seem petty to be talking about a mere 5 DPS, but Master Shapeshifter adds more damage to maul, which is a major contributor to my damage and does even more threat than mangle. MS also helps swipe on AoE tanking, adds damage to lacerate ticks and so on and so on.

I'd take master shapeshifter.

[Deleted]

Many thanks for the elaborate reply Qieth. I was really hoping for something like that.

I think there is one exception though where imp mangle would be better than Natural Shapeshifter.
That would be General Vezax where you have -20% melee haste which effects Maul but not Mangle.

What do you think?

[elapadrinar]

with the change to fairie fire, making it produce as much threat as mangle, master shapeshifter > imp mangle. since you should be fairie firing every time its up too you dont need the reduced CD on magle. and what qieth said

all that being said, i have imp mangle. for several reasons:
-my duel spec is resto, and there are many times i am asked to dps. since i cant get shred talents/glyphs/idol with a tank oriented build i use a mangle rotation, thus making imp mangle viable for when i do have to go cat.
-i dont like having to waste 5 points in the resto tree to get mss. this isnt a big deal for a bear only build, but once again when i go cat, having 2 free points that i put in King of the Jungle, helps my dps. i have also considered putting those 2 points in brutal impact since there are lots of bosses in ulduar that need interupting.

[Alski]

you forgot to factor in the crits :P

With Master Shapeshifter: 1537x1.4 / 6 = 358.6 DPS
With improved mangle: 1477x1.4 / 4,5 = 459.5 DPS

Difference of just over 100dps

1 thing to not between the 2 is the MMS effectively costs 5 talent points compared to 3 for imp mangle. In the end it just comes down to personal preference like alot of things.