weapon enchant for cat

[xebtria]

I'd like to have a guess...

Massacre is 110 AP. 110 AP are... well, 110 AP.
Beserking is 400 AP for 15 secons with 45 sec internal cd, meaning 1 PPM. due to 15 secs is 60 secs / 4, beserking is 100 AP.

and guess what?
110 AP > 100 AP.

to get beserking to a state where it's equal to 110 AP, it need to proc 10% more often. due to haste, this can be reduced (since I think, PPM's + Internal CDs are recalculated to a procchance per hit). since melee is the only affected thing from haste and specials are not and melee dmg is ~1/3 of our damage, you would have beserking to proc not every 60 secs, but every (60-10%*4/3) = 52 seconds. this would result in an effective haste needed for 13,33% and this is far more than any cat ever receives - without gimping the remaining 2/3 of a cat's damage

another argument FOR massacre is: beserking always procs if you don't need it. for example:
- the heart of Xt-002 is just merging again with xt-002
- 2 seconds earlier you just applied rip, so no 400 extra AP for rip
- beserk just went off, and your trinket has only 4 seconds left.
=> 110 AP applies always. so you don't need to watch it proc to burst your CDs.

well OK! if you actually applied your rip right after beserking procs and you blow your trinkets and your Beserker... it is higher than with massacre. but do you know murphy? ok then...

Massacre > Beserking

and for those, who argument "wohooo we have talents which increases AP"
110*1,25*1,10*WHATEVER is still > 100*1,25*1,10*WHATEVER

massacre is the way to go. and for mongoose... whatever was there calculated... 27,5 agility and 2% haste will never be > 110 or even > 100 AP. never.

[Alski]

xebtria. You will find that Beserking(PPM of 1.2 not 1) comes out far better in raid situations (ignoring murphys law) simply because well will have a small amount of haste on our gear (5-10%) and we will get an additional +20% from raid buffs (WF totem/imp Icy talons)

Buff duration * PPM / 60 * haste% = 15 * 1.2 / 60 1.25 = 0.375

The average AP from this enchant is thus:
0.375 * 400 AP = 150 AP

Add in HoTW + 10% from raid buffs and your looking at about 180 AP compared to about 132 from Massacre.

[getefix]

I'd like to have a guess...

Massacre is 110 AP. 110 AP are... well, 110 AP.
Beserking is 400 AP for 15 secons with 45 sec internal cd, meaning 1 PPM. due to 15 secs is 60 secs / 4, beserking is 100 AP.

pretty sure the timer starts after the proc happens, not after the buff disappears.

[Nimoku]

so 10% is from Heart of the Wild, 25% is from? you get 20% increase on AP on weapons from predatory strikes, is that what you meant? If you're gonna do math, explain where things come from so we can understand.
I'm pretty sure HotW multiplies with berserking too, and i doubt pred strikes counts.

Stat multipliers from talents or class abilities (like bear form) do not multiply the stats you get from buffs. So if Fortitude buff doesn't get the 10% extra stam from HotW, then Berserking also shouldn't get 10% extra from HotW.
Because the multipliers from talents work before buffs, thus not affecting the buffs (like beserking).

For me a reliable enchant beats a PPM enchant anyways.
Anyway with multipliers from talents massacre is worth about 143 attack power (110 + (110*0.1) + (110*0.2) )
Which is 400 with proc vs 143 ap.

[Alski]

Stat multipliers from talents or class abilities (like bear form) do not multiply the stats you get from buffs. So if Fortitude buff doesn't get the 10% extra stam from HotW, then Berserking also shouldn't get 10% extra from HotW.
Because the multipliers from talents work before buffs, thus not affecting the buffs (like beserking).

You might want to go double check that, you will find that buffs scale with our talents. Easiest way to test it would be heading to the target dummy and hitting it in cat till Berserking procs, youll notice it gives you 440 instead of 400 thanks to HoTW

[Dokoran]

The executioner does sound interesting, however I believe the amount if procs for might be nerfed at 80 though, this needs some clarification though.

However, 110 AP > Berserking.

Wrong, so wrong. Berserker out parses 110ap by a long shot.

[Dokoran]

On a kit, the amount of uptime on the berserking proc is actually very high.

I did DPS testing on a dummy, 15 minutes per dummy with both the 110 atkpwr enchant and then went with the berserking enchant, both on Journey's End. This was after 3.1.

15 minutes with each enchant on the level 83 dummy.

With berserking enchant, dps was 300-500 higher.

So yes, on shorter fights 110ap is definitely better, on boss fights, berserking comes out on top.

[Cedlina]

but what about Executioner? better than both or not? :P

[Paskgotsheal]

xebtria. You will find that Beserking(PPM of 1.2 not 1) comes out far better in raid situations (ignoring murphys law) simply because well will have a small amount of haste on our gear (5-10%) and we will get an additional +20% from raid buffs (WF totem/imp Icy talons)

Buff duration * PPM / 60 * haste% = 15 * 1.2 / 60 1.25 = 0.375

The average AP from this enchant is thus:
0.375 * 400 AP = 150 AP

Add in HoTW + 10% from raid buffs and your looking at about 180 AP compared to about 132 from Massacre.

Thanks for explaining to them, I've been tied up and havent had much free time.

Mainly is that most ferals have about .7 swing timer during raids + specials = berserk is up a lot more then its "normal" ppm. And since it doesnt have a internal CD it can be up almost indefinatly

[spencernw]

I don't think you understand PPM as well as you think you do. Berserker IS a PPM based enchant, but it does not have a CD. Those 2 are not mutually exclusive and in the case of proc munching can actually end up being a bad thing. Something tells me your diagnosis of "with raid buffs it's almost always up for me lol" is not particularly accurate but you simply noticing it fairly regularly as extensive testing periods have been done to show it's average up time.

Having said that, you are correct that it will usually yield more effective AP than a flat 110 enchant, but some people sacrifice their marginal DPS loss to know that their DPS will be more consistent. As someone else said, some DPS calculators put the difference as low as 12dps...which can easily be thrown off by bad proc luck when you "need" it.

Every trinket proc and enchant proc has a 45 second internal cooldown no mater what. But you can get and addon that tells you when the internal CD is up. If i remember right it is procadille or something. I have it on my druid and it is perfict. It helps tell me when I should use FB when Grim Troll procs so I can build up CP's.

[Khraeme]

Every trinket proc and enchant proc has a 45 second internal cooldown no mater what. But you can get and addon that tells you when the internal CD is up. If i remember right it is procadille or something. I have it on my druid and it is perfict. It helps tell me when I should use FB when Grim Troll procs so I can build up CP's.

wrong...i have mongoose on my weapon for tanking and i see it proc 2-3 times in a row, or be up for a decent amount of time

[Alski]

wrong...i have mongoose on my weapon for tanking and i see it proc 2-3 times in a row, or be up for a decent amount of time

swipe spamming 3+ mobs and i see mongoose up close to 100% of the times.

[Khraeme]

swipe spamming 3+ mobs and i see mongoose up close to 100% of the times.

^^ agreed, i was tanking last nite naxx alt run, mongoose proc was up all the time, which is good...more dodge/crit/ap for me

[Paskgotsheal]

That's because it's not a typical PPM in the sense that it has a internal CD. It does NOT. This is where so many people get confused and why they think that 110 AP > berserking (which is incorrect as already shown.)

[timarack]

7133 without beserking proc'ed
7573 with beserking proc'ed
so beserking give me 440 ap not 400

[Nimoku]

^^ agreed, i was tanking last nite naxx alt run, mongoose proc was up all the time, which is good...more dodge/crit/ap for me

Since when does agility give ap in bear form?

[spencernw]

swipe spamming 3+ mobs and i see mongoose up close to 100% of the times.

I agree there. I forgot about mongoose. So let me rephrase that comment. As far as I know all WotKL enchants and trinkets I use have a 45 second CD.

[Malfz]

As far as I know all WotKL enchants and trinkets I use have a 45 second CD.

I just went and hit a dummy for 2 minutes, in those two minutes, Berserking proced 4 times.

[Paskgotsheal]

I agree there. I forgot about mongoose. So let me rephrase that comment. As far as I know all WotKL enchants and trinkets I use have a 45 second CD.