Agi vs. Crit for ret pala?

[Iron Pigeon88]

What is the difference between the two stats? I've never really looked into it, but it seems like Agi would have an advantage considering the increase from kings. I feel like I'm wrong, anyone care to enlighten me?

[Shimo]

The difference is perfectly clear. You will never gem for crit or agi but for strength so that leaves agi out of the question.

[Ershiin]

The difference is that it doesnt exist on non-blue plate gear.. Dont as me why though..

[PremiumTax]

Crit> agility because it effects both our melee attacks and our spells, and it doesnt matter about geming majority of it, he might be talking about his meta. the agility crit damage or the crit and damage.

[Xs]

Crit is optimal, but Agi isn't super mega bad
Considering only 1 spell can crit every 15 secs, its not a massive difference, and Agi itself is point for point almost equal to crit

[Adamson]

Crit> agility because it effects both our melee attacks and our spells, and it doesnt matter about geming majority of it, he might be talking about his meta. the agility crit damage or the crit and damage.

We cast one spell that crits and it makes up about 5% of our total damage. Having spell crit isn't necessarily "awesome"

[Shimo]

Crit> agility because it effects both our melee attacks and our spells, and it doesnt matter about geming majority of it, he might be talking about his meta. the agility crit damage or the crit and damage.

Yea didnt think about the meta. Time to plan the gems btw since Jc is getting nerfed QQ ...

[Iron Pigeon88]

Crit> agility because it effects both our melee attacks and our spells.

Thats what I was looking for... I played a ret pally from vanilla to last day pre-wotlk, when there was still such a thing as spell crit. and when things like http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30102 still existed.

[Adamson]

Crit> agility because it effects both our melee attacks and our spells, and it doesnt matter about geming majority of it, he might be talking about his meta. the agility crit damage or the crit and damage.

We cast one spell that crits and it makes up about 5% of our total damage. Having spell crit isn't necessarily "awesome"

We cast one spell that crits and it makes up about 5% of our total damage. Having spell crit isn't necessarily "awesome"

We cast one spell that crits and it makes up about 5% of our total damage. Having spell crit isn't necessarily "awesome"

[blupp74]

What is the difference between the two stats? I've never really looked into it, but it seems like Agi would have an advantage considering the increase from kings. I feel like I'm wrong, anyone care to enlighten me?

Personally, in TBC I felt like agi > crit, since back then crit rating was individual for melee and spell, and agility increases melee crit, armor and chance to dodge.
But since WotLK, crit > agi for me.

Agi still offers melee crit, dodge and armor.
Crit now offers both spell and melee crit, and while it's true that we only have one offensive ability that benefits from spell crit, we also have healing spells, and sheath of light that triggers a HoT when we crit.

Do you need it as DPS in PvE? Mostly not. But you don't need dodge and armor there either. And to me it's more likely that you'll be throwing some off-heals, than you being asked to survive more than 1-2 hits from a raid mob.

Besides, as far as I know, crit rating give more crit than agility.

So for me it's always crit, if I have the option.

[Adamson]

Personally, in TBC I felt like agi > crit, since back then crit rating was individual for melee and spell, and agility increases melee crit, armor and chance to dodge.
But since WotLK, crit > agi for me.

Even back in BC judgement was the only spell we cast and it usually only made up 5% of our damage. And crit was more crit than agility ever was.



THIS JUST IN:


Agility has NEVER been better than crit, ever


God, you people are killing me.

[amk]

We cast one spell that crits and it makes up about 5% of our total damage. Having spell crit isn't necessarily "awesome"

/tar Patchwerk
/cast Holy Wrath



/vanish

But Adamson's points are still valid.

Spell Crit isn't super-special-awesome, as it only effects two of our spells, only one of which is used in Ulduar. But more is still more, and with Ret slowly being put through the nerf grinder, we need to take most more we can get.

I still don't recommend running the Crit Meta over the Agi meta if you don't have JC'ing, but that's just me. I've been using an Enchanted Tear to meet the requirements of the blue gem for my Meta, and every other Gem is Strength or until recently, Hit.

So:

- don't gem for Agility
- don't enchant for Agility, except for perhaps your Cloak (I'm still torn between AG vs Haste on cloak myself)

But does that mean you don't take Inevitable Defeat to replace your Titansteel Destroyer because it has Agility and not Crit? Of course you take it!

Agility isn't bad. Its just not better then Crit.

[Iron Pigeon88]

Is there a point for point difference?

[amk]

Is there a point for point difference?

Crit = increases your Critical Chance with Physical attacks and melee attacks
Agility = increases your Critical Chance with Physical attacks.

That and Paladins don't get that great a conversion from Agility to Crit. Budget per point, we get far more Crit from Crit Rating then Agility.


It's really simple though: you don't gem or enchant for Agility (outside of cloak; see debate). If you get an item with Agility on it, you didn't take it because of the Agility in the first place. If you are asking if you see an accessory with Str, Stam and Crit on it, should you take that over one with Agility, Stam, Crit and AP...you need a calculator for that.


TLR - Agility isn't bad. Crit Rating is better.

[RPGfan251]

Crit = increases your Critical Chance with Physical attacks and melee attacks
Agility = increases your Critical Chance with Physical attacks.

That and Paladins don't get that great a conversion from Agility to Crit. Budget per point, we get far more Crit from Crit Rating then Agility.


It's really simple though: you don't gem or enchant for Agility (outside of cloak; see debate). If you get an item with Agility on it, you didn't take it because of the Agility in the first place. If you are asking if you see an accessory with Str, Stam and Crit on it, should you take that over one with Agility, Stam, Crit and AP...you need a calculator for that.


TLR - Agility isn't bad. Crit Rating is better.

Paladins have the HIGHEST agi -> crit ratio

on a side note whats TLR ?

[Alski]

Paladins have the HIGHEST agi -> crit ratio

on a side note whats TLR ?

he speaks the truth.


Agi --> 1% crit
Warrior 62.5
Paladin 52.08333333
Hunter 83.33333333
Rogue 83.33333333
Priest 52.08333333
Death Knight 62.5
Shaman 83.33333333
Mage 51.02040816
Warlock 50.50505051
Druid 83.33333333

p.s. TL;DR means 'To Long; Didn't read'

[RPGfan251]

thanks for the numbers to back up and definition

[Iron Pigeon88]

Yeah, numbers were very much helpful, plus I didnt know what TL;DR meant either. Tanks.

[Deralte]

he speaks the truth.


Agi --> 1% crit
Warrior 62.5
Paladin 52.08333333
Hunter 83.33333333
Rogue 83.33333333
Priest 52.08333333
Death Knight 62.5
Shaman 83.33333333
Mage 51.02040816
Warlock 50.50505051
Druid 83.33333333

p.s. TL;DR means 'To Long; Didn't read'

going to lvl an agi stacking mage

[nwo]

You need about 15-20% more agility value in order to get the same crit % as you would from crit rating. Therefore, even with raid buffs, pure crit rating is slightly better than agility. Don't necessarily stay away from agility but do not enchant it or gem it and do not go for agility gear (mostly weapons on high end gear) if you can get one with str and crit rating instead if the rest of the stats are similar or equal value.