RMP (3v3) - How do you manage 2 melee teams (2200+)

[Xj]

Last season I might have said RMP was OP, but this season I really have no idea what to do against 2xmelee teams.

Basically, we 'facerolled' our way to 2200 mmr, but now 90% of the teams are warrior/dk/druid warrior/dk/pala or ret/dk/druid ret/dk/pala.

These are the 4 teams that are most common and we seriously have no idea how to manage. The dk keeps pressure 100% of the time on our priest so we're trying to control him with stuns while sheeping the ret (this gives us about 30-60 seconds of survival).
But the problem is we really don't know who to nuke.

We take the dk pet first always, then its really hard. If we nuke the dk then i'll go OOM and we barely even get him to 50% (since the druid keeps on doting/healing while the ret is sheeped). We can't sheep the dk and nuke the ret cause the ret prioritizes dispelling my sheeps (since the druid overheals him like hell, we can't outdps).

A few times we managed to get the druid oom, but innervate and he's back to 100%.


Seriously, if we can't oom the healer, and can't nuke either target (barely get them to 50%), how do the skilled RMP teams manage?

[Xj]

bababa cc and kill the druid

Why post a reply if you have no clue what's your talking about (I doubt you ever got to high rated games with such a reply).

I just said, we keep the ret cc'd 30-60 seconds, but neither the dk nor the druid die in that time because of the insane dot spam. Priest can't dispell cause he's getting spammed by the dk (even with me and the rogue on the dk, he managed to nuke the priest by using magic shield and chain spaming the rogue).

And FYI, these teams are all in the top 20-30 of our bg, so its the best dks/druids/rets in the bg.

[Summerbreeze]

Split dmg ftw !
Only try to dmg the Dk AND the Druid he can´t keep both alive ...

[Vennom]

I run a rogue rogue druid set up, or will soon.

Just wondering, have you tried.

Sap DK
Sheep Pally
Blow up Tree

DK might trinket, to the sheep
Pally might trinket, to the blind, then bubble

I know its easier said and done, especially with DnD and consecration. But i dunno.

When i ran Rogue/Rogue/Druid. We would double sap, and blow up asap, whoever trinketed would get cycloned, then blinded.

Also, if your rogue catches the ToL in cat, and gets a sap off, you can nuke the pally with Mass Dispell.

It's a rough situation all around.

Best thing i found for strategy is frapsing arena matches (especially against set ups you lost to) and find the pattern, there is always a pattern!

[A.S.D.]

Posted on: May 28, 2009, 02:49:14 PMPosted by: Summerbreeze
Insert QuoteSplit dmg ftw !
Only try to dmg the Dk AND the Druid he can´t keep both alive ...

I dout this will work. The DK will put too much dmg if the rogue goes on him, and if the mage goes on the DK, the mage wont be able to deal enough dmg because of the magic shield. Another thing is that it will take too much time before the druid feels the preasure from the mage or the rogue if the separate their dmg.

First your rogue needs to try always to throw a sap (best will be on the pala)
Imo, the best chance is to try to separate them somehow (you know - fear atleast 2, frost nova, things like that). In a certain moment you need to blow away the druid with shattered combo and lots of stuns from your rogue which you keep cc on the paladin. Your best time for that is to try the nuking when DK's DG is on CD and his resist magic too (if possible).

Another way I've seen on youtube is to nuke the paladin really hard while cc the druid. If your priest manages to despel their buffs, then the pala bubbles > mass dispel and game over.

Also, can your priest mana burn the pala? This will prevent alot of dmg income on you and you will be more free with the sheep and less repentances and stuns.

[onaqui]

I run a rogue rogue druid set up, or will soon.

Just wondering, have you tried.

Sap DK
Sheep Pally
Blow up Tree

DK might trinket, to the sheep
Pally might trinket, to the blind, then bubble

I know its easier said and done, especially with DnD and consecration. But i dunno.

When i ran Rogue/Rogue/Druid. We would double sap, and blow up asap, whoever trinketed would get cycloned, then blinded.

Also, if your rogue catches the ToL in cat, and gets a sap off, you can nuke the pally with Mass Dispell.

It's a rough situation all around.

Best thing i found for strategy is frapsing arena matches (especially against set ups you lost to) and find the pattern, there is always a pattern!

DK can become unsappable with a CD. But trying to kill the druid might work like you're saying, if you at the same time can keep the ret and the DK off your priest, wich you probably cant.

[rathok]

@OP

I would try and keep the dmg to a minimum and CC the dps as best you can. Spam poly between the 2 melees and focus the healer. Have all 3 (RMP) focus the druid right from the start and he'll probably blow some cooldowns just to keep from getting gibbed. Once he recovers from the burst then swap DPS and try to CC the druid (fear/MC/Mage stun). After you get setup again then go for another gib attemp with all 3 of you focusing on the druid. If all 3 of you pop all your cooldowns, rogue saves energy and starts it off with a vanish+CS+KS combo while the pally (if they have one) is CC'd, Mage pops snap and a 2nd IV+water ele and the druids barkskin is on cooldown then there is no way he'll survive the burst.

How many of you are engineers? What spec is the mage?

I'm not pro or anything but that's the best plan i can come up with. Just try and keep their damage to a minimum and then work on getting 2 sets of gib attempts on the healer (since he can't really be chain CC'd). Hopefully he'll go down the 2nd time w/o barkskin or a trinket to save him.

[rathok]

wait for the thorns/ret aura nerf and faceroll them like you do every other combination.

lol, yeah, because that ret aura is totally what's making the difference.

[Raph]

Ret aura is not getting nerfed You're thinking of E4aE, which probably will make a difference

[Swizzle]

Ret aura is not getting nerfed You're thinking of E4aE, which probably will make a difference

ret aura and thorns are having their spellpower coefficient cut by 50%. that, in any book, is a nerf.

[Shaamwow]

If you're facing a druid healer, you have 1 of 2 options.

CC the dps, focus the druid. --- if you're doing this it would suit you well to start nuking one dps, then switch to the other one hard and fast. This can catch the druid off guard, while he's trying to save the 2nd dps he may neglect the one you focused first, allowing you to switch hard back to him and take him out. Or, with a well timed CC, the druid might not be able to save the 2nd one at all.

CC the druid, focus a dps. --- if you're doing this the druid should be mana burned, your priest needs to watch for innervate so they can dispell it.

really you should own double melee teams, between slowing poisons, huge burst, healing debuff, frost nove/etc.

[Xj]

If you're facing a druid healer, you have 1 of 2 options.

CC the dps, focus the druid. --- if you're doing this it would suit you well to start nuking one dps, then switch to the other one hard and fast. This can catch the druid off guard, while he's trying to save the 2nd dps he may neglect the one you focused first, allowing you to switch hard back to him and take him out. Or, with a well timed CC, the druid might not be able to save the 2nd one at all.

CC the druid, focus a dps. --- if you're doing this the druid should be mana burned, your priest needs to watch for innervate so they can dispell it.

really you should own double melee teams, between slowing poisons, huge burst, healing debuff, frost nove/etc.

Owning double melee that have a dk and a druid in them is impossible. Winning barely is more like it. No class can slow you as much as dks can, not to mention bursts and interrupts. frost nova is only good for a few seconds and usually by the time its off the priest is still in range of the dk since he's getting chain spammed.

I guess the only real viable tactic is to watch the hots and switch to the unhoted one asap over and over again. But its hard, mana wise they outlast us big time, so we have a really small frame (reseting is not an option with a dk).

[Odena]

Even getting up there in rating, I find that druids are often easier to CC than some other classes, If I can get an improved CS on him, burst, Nova and deep freeze, ( while priest in mana burning ) they can go down like a sack of shit.

Also having a rogue sap first to take trinket out of the equation, really helps.

[Mysmere]

ret aura and thorns are having their spellpower coefficient cut by 50%. that, in any book, is a nerf.

hotfixed in bro

you're a little behind

[wortuzalian]

I play rogue/mage/lock, so it's a little different, but from a rogue POV I have a suggestion (this has to be done quickly to work):


Start with sheep on the ret to mitigate their initial burst, sap on DK (if possible, likely not - bloodboil), and spellsteal the pally clean of hots/buffs.


Your rogue goes for the druid, who will almost always be tree. If your rogue can't get a sap on the druid (which 99% of the time he won't b/c the druid will be tree), have him do this: cheapshot the druid, vanish, slice and dice (40% haste and mad poison procs), sprint to the pally.

Mage should be playing D vs the DK (who was probably not sapped) while still spellstealing the pally when possible. When the rogue is close to the RET, sheep DK asap and pop all offensive CDs to burst down the ret (who should be nearly clean of buffs/hots). The rogue will open on the ret with a cheap shot so the RET can't free the DK. It will be rogue/mage unleashing on RET, only kidney after freedom.

During all this, your priest will have been mounted. He will have followed the rogue on his mount toward the druid. When the druid got cheapshot, he would have dismounted near the druid. Cheapshot lasts 4s, the priest will have to fear as soon
cheapshot ends. If druid doesn't trinket the fear, ret dies. Priest should be dpsing the RET after fear and spamming mass dispell when the HP gets low. When the druid trinkets the fear, he needs to be blinded, and at the end of blind, counterspelled (or CSd then blinded).

You should score a kill on the pally, and then control the dk with MC/sheep/fear/nova while you kill the druid (priest manaburns).



So to recap:
mage sheep RET and steal, then sheep DK burst pally, watch for CS on druid on your turn.
rogue (saps dk if possible), sap/cheap shot druid, vanish, slice and dice, open burst on pally, watch for blind on druid on your turn.
priest follows rogue to druid on mount, fears after cheapshot, dps pally (or heal if needed) and spams mass dispell when pally < 40%.

You have 4s cheapshot + 2s (avg) fear (burn druid's trinket) + 5s blind +4s silence, which is 15 seconds to take down a ret if done correctly (granted your mage will have to be watching the dk as well). You will have about 10s of sheeps on the DK (you can burn your blind here after sheep trinket if he uses magic bubble, that leaves you 11s of cc on the druid only, but it's still enough.

The last thing to consider is, if at the end of all this, the ret is still not dead, let your mage solo him while your rogue vanishes and stunlocks the druid for another 10s, plus gauge, etc..

It takes a ton of coordination and precise timing, but if you communicate well, and everyone knows what they are doing you can pull it off. It's like learning a boss fight.

[Swizzle]

hotfixed in bro

you're a little behind

meh, the change i stated is still right.

[dr2022]

sound silly coz i`m not a pvper but

put slow on the druid and spellsteal the hots xD*(the slow so it will slow down the regrowth and healing touch)

[Hotlol]

your priest needs to watch for innervate so they can dispell it.

Good luck.

[Swizzle]

sound silly coz i`m not a pvper but

put slow on the druid and spellsteal the hots xD*(the slow so it will slow down the regrowth and healing touch)

who the hell is arcane in arena anymore?

[dr2022]

think i`ve said *im not a pvper *put who knows there might some arcane pvpers