Super angry and confused at rating calculations - Any ideas?

[Draculus]

Played some 3s tonight with some friends. Ill get to the point:


Our personal rating, the match making one, at the end of the game- rated us at a low 1038 or so, and we faced the same team 4 times and lost 4 times to them. Their match making rating was at 1300. They won 47 points by beating us, though they are over 200 above us. Thats 4 times in a row, they got 47 points!! Thats 188 points for them, and were 200 lower then them....

But the problem is, we face a 781 rated team, and we were already down to 970 by that time, and we get 4 points and they loose 1. How does this make any sense?

We also fought a 1547 team when our match making rating was at 1071 and they won 33 points while we lost 9!!

We also fought a team with a mmr of 1132 and we were 1093 and won that, and only got 13 points while they lost 8..

We also fought a team with 830 and us at 984 and won 6 points while they lost 0.



I see other teams fight us, have higher ratings then u, with better gear then us and get more points then we have gotten in 30 games.

It seems like either were facing really high teams and they score major points off of us, or we face lower teams and score nothing off of them.

What is the deal? I don't understand this at all.

[Draculus]

To update, we won a game at 933 vs a 1032 team, we won 14 points, and they lost 10. How does a team 300 or 500 points above us score such a high amount of points? We sure aren't doing it and were 100 below!

[mudminer]

I don't understand this at all.

You need to think about it harder!

hint: secret rating (shown) isn't the same as team rating.

[Draculus]

I am in no way referring to actual team rating, I am talking completely about the Match rating that is shown at the end of each game.

[Rymezz]

when you had 0 rating, you gained 47 rating everytime.. start thinking >.>

[Draculus]

Thanks for not helping.


When I had 0 rating? Team rating? MMR Rating?

[lurked]

The guys probably just started a team, but their match making rating was already higher than yours because of the arenas they already played in some other teams.

So, they were probably still in the first few games of their team, since they won 47points.

The MMR is independant from the team rating, so you can have 0 team rating, 1300MMR, fight against teams with like 1000 team rating, and 1100 MMR, and still get 47points when you win, while they'd get maybe 6ish to beat you.

[Rudy]

i am not sure at this but i think the problem you have is between hidden rating (matchmaking system) and you actual arena rating.
When you end an arena and show your and other team rating that is the hidden one...and it is the rating you SHOULD have in base ofthe fights you have win/lost.
If you aren 1800 hidden and your arena rating is 1700 you should pick more rating for let you pick the 1800hidden1. It s not easy to explain cause there are more variabilities like the hidden of the team you are facing, the real arena rating etc etc
That's what i can say....sorry for bad english xD trying to do the best i can :P

[Roccosan]

Isn't it funny how anger and stupidity go hand in hand?


The points you get are based on the relative team ratings. You can't see the other team's rating unless you armory them.

MMR only modifies the # of points your OWN team will gain/lose. When your team rating is below your MMR rating, you gain more points and lose less (you really shouldn't lose any points for a loss until you get within a few hundred points of your MMR). As you get closer to it, things even out.

Obviously the team you lost to 4 times in a row had a team rating way below their MMR. They gained tons of points because the team rating was trying to reach the MMR.

That's what everyone's been trying to explain. Over and over.

[Draculus]

Its making more and more sense, I really appreciate the explanations.

Could you explain why we are constantly facing teams who are gaining like 47 points? Do they start at a mmr of 1500 when they create a new team ? Or is our MMR so low that everytime someone wins we are so low that they gain a shitload of points?

[telemain]

Its making more and more sense, I really appreciate the explanations.

Could you explain why we are constantly facing teams who are gaining like 47 points? Do they start at a mmr of 1500 when they create a new team ? Or is our MMR so low that everytime someone wins we are so low that they gain a shitload of points?

You are focusing WAY too much on match making rating. Your MMR rating is for figuring out who you will fight again (aka match making)

If they've played on other teams and say have an MMR of 1200, then start a new team, their team rating will be zero. The arena system tries to bring them up to their MMR rating, meaning when they win they will gain a lot of points (because their team rating is way below their MMR rating) and if they lose they will lose a very few points (same reason)

Your confusion seems to be caused because your team's MMR is close to your team rating. The people who are gaining a bunch of rating are not close to their MMR.

Hope this clears things up.

[Roccosan]

Most likely they are brand new teams. You will gain 47 points every win and lose 0 every loss until your team rating (which starts at 0) gets closer (within a few hundred points or so) to your MMR.


Your MMR rating is based off alot of things, including past match history. It doesn't start at 0 like team rating. My 3's MMR started at ~1900, so we climbed very quickly.

That's not to say your team rating will be stuck at your MMR forever; your MMR goes up and down based on your performance. If you're winning more than you lose, your MMR climbs (and your team rating should get pulled towards it as you play more). By the time my 3's reached 1900ish team rating, our MMR was up to ~2300. Of course the latest patch helped (they raised 3's and 5's MMR to match how easy it was to get high team rating in 2's).

[Draculus]

This makes sense.

But it makes me wonder, how does this other team get a high mmr? How could they have raised their mmr so high without actually having a team that eventually was at a team rating of 1500 or 1700 where their mmr is supposed to be.

Are they all reroll teams we are facing that score significantly higher then us because of their mmr?

And if so, why are we facing these teams, why cant the system just pick a team at 1600 rating who has an mmr of 1500 to fight against them instead of a team with 1000 mmr and a rating of 900 like me?

This also makes me wonder, how can you raise your mmr? Win 50% of the games vs teams higher then your mmr right? What If Im facing teams with 1500 mmr, or 1700 mmr and my mmr is only at 1000. How then could I raise my mmr to lets say, 1350, which is where I want my rating to be to get furious pieces for example?

[Draculus]

I guess my biggest problem is I am not sure how to raise my rating. It seems like the teams I loose against are higher rated teams, and the ones I win against are lower rated.

It doesn't seem fair that I would need to beat teams with significantly more of an mmr then me to raise my mmr. Seems like I could never break out of the cycle of a few teams I can beat and a few I cant.

Why arent I being matched with teams with much lower of an mmr then my team, like the other teams who have higher mmr's but are facing me?

[telemain]

I guess my biggest problem is I am not sure how to raise my rating. It seems like the teams I loose against are higher rated teams, and the ones I win against are lower rated.

It doesn't seem fair that I would need to beat teams with significantly more of an mmr then me to raise my mmr. Seems like I could never break out of the cycle of a few teams I can beat and a few I cant.

Why arent I being matched with teams with much lower of an mmr then my team, like the other teams who have higher mmr's but are facing me?

Umm, well, the point of the system is that teams will find where they should be ranked and then stay there, you aren't supposed to just raise your rating indefinitely. It seems that you have reached your equilibrium.

[Roccosan]

Like Telemain said.

The days of "welfare epics" from arenas are long gone. Most teams won't be able to get full furious set. For every team with a 2k+ rating, there's 10 teams that struggle to break 1500...

Gear up, keep practicing, and eventually you should be able to claw your way higher. It helps to have OP partners (like my DK and Prot Pally) though!

[Draculus]

How does an MMR work for a 3s team with 2 people with a MMR of 1000 and one person with a MMR of 1800?

So to improve my rating, I need to improve my MMR, by not just beating other teams, but beating other teams which are already considered better then me(have higher mmr) and do it consecutively while lacking the gear that their higher MMR and therefore rating has gotten them?

[Ordin]

How does an MMR work for a 3s team with 2 people with a MMR of 1000 and one person with a MMR of 1800?

So to improve my rating, I need to improve my MMR, by not just beating other teams, but beating other teams which are already considered better then me(have higher mmr) and do it consecutively while lacking the gear that their higher MMR and therefore rating has gotten them?

If you keep playing games your MMR, Personal Rating and Team Rating will eventually all even out to be the same number which is where your team "belongs" based on how you match up against other teams at various ratings.

The gear argument is really just an excuse. Having a few pieces of furious gear instead of deadly gear is very rarely going to be the difference between a win and a loss. The only time you could potentially make that argument would be when you are getting near the rating to purchase weapons since you can't get pvp weapons from previous seasons.

[Roccosan]

Every win improves your MMR. Obviously beating a higher rated team will increase it more.

You are just going to top off eventually. You'll consistently lose as many games as you win... and that's basically where your rating will stay. Your team might just not be good enough to get everything you want. At that point, it's like Ordin said... Deadly doesn't require a rating, and it's almost as good. Suck it up and buy some.

If you really want that full furious set, only option then is to reroll or get better.

[Mofoe]

Will what I would like to know is how is your MMR calculated everyone says it eventually evens out but how is that calculated is it based on ur loses vs wins and thier team rating meaning once you start losing lets say 50% of your games it evens out? Also if I have a high 2v2 rating will that help me have a higher mmr in 3v3?