Thunderstorm! - Enh/Resto PvP and PvE

[Snoogle]

I was just at the US (NA) Forums, and found a fantastic thread there, and just thought I had to share it with you guys, even if some people probably already had thought about this.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...sid=1&pageNo=1

Basically: Switch LvB and Thunderstorm, making Thunderstorm a level 75 BASELINE ability and LvB the 51pt Elemental talent, or to give Elemental a new 51pointer and keep both of the spells as baseline.
A thought about this was also to remove the pushback from Thunderstorm and make the glyph apply it.

PvP
This would be true gold for both Enhancement and Restoration PvP, as our biggest problem right now is survivability and mana. When getting stunlocked by a rogue or a retridin- Boom! giving us some precious time without damage and dealing some damage to the attacker.
Sometimes mana can be a problem for Resto while being focused, and for Enhancement, we would have to spend less talents on manaregen and have to think less about using Shamanistic Rage for anything but Damage reducing (we have to spend alot of talents to do some decent damage, anyway.)
This is alot better than giving us some boring stun/immobilize removing ability, as it is very cool and unique! (very shamanistic, tbh!)
PvE Elementals hardly use it, and right now PvP Elemental is the most viable.

Enhancement
This would also help out PvE Enhancement AoE, as our AoE is quite mediocre atm, it wouldn't boost our singletarget dps much, because it doesn't deal alot of damage and has a 45sec CD, and I am always short on GCD's while playing Enhance PvE.
The little more dps it would bring would be nice, since we're not really on top atm, sure we're hybrids, but look at catdruids! It would be especially nice on fights like Kologarn, hitting all parts of him.

Restoration
From what I've heard Resto can sometimes have mana problems on hardmode, in addition to the Chainheal problem, and this would help that out.

As the last thing, this would make Elemental leveling a bit funnier, since we'll be getting LvB in level 60 instead of 75 ;D and everybody loves bursting people off cliffs, if I weren't an ugly cow I'd play Elemental only for that

[Bainz]

Very interesting concept indeed.

[Oneleg]

would make more sense, I very very VERY rarely use LvB as enhance, there are 2 fights I have ever used it on with any consistency. I would rather see it stay the way it is for the knockback, and have to glyph to remove it still.

[Sarevokcz]

how about "switch Earth Shield with Chain heal and Ripitde with Healing wave", that way, restos would be still the same, even better, since they would get riptide and earth shield sooner and "ultimate aoe heal" aka Chainlol would be deep talent, since its not needed sooner, and also it would provide more survivability to elemental and enhancement in pvp?

now seriously, thunderstorm wouldnt make much difference for pve restoshaman, flaws of restoshamans in hardmodes are way more severe than occasional mana starvings, for pvp, in current form, it still isnt really THAT usefull spell, in most cases, those people just SS/charge/whatever back to you or snare/stun you anyway, its very situational spell and wouldnt solve almost anything

mana problems can be solved by milion other ways, there are atleast 3 ways how to improve WS and several more nice ideas over these forums.

also, AoE for enhas: again, 45s spell wont make much difference, elementals know that from first hand, magma is way superior, yet most of the time usable only by enhas, since elementals are keeping ToW for all casters, even enhas, if anything, shaman deserve some normal AoE, not half assed CD abilities or gimmicks. Blizzard-like AoE would be ideal

glyphed knockback doesnt really sound thrilling for elemental, too, imo, its just another major glyph, which could be usefull, and i actually use TS pretty often for throwing mobs back to DnD/consecs or those buggers before XT with their yellow shield bubbles, dont wanna loose something like that out of a blue

tbh what would make pvp for resto and enha alot more appealing, is Astral Shift, not Thunderstorm, if that one would become trainable, or at the very least moved up the tree, somewhere to 3rd 4th tier, that would be sweet for other specs

[Snoogle]

The idea was not fixing all of Shamans problems, and god knows they are many, but a fast and easy fix to improve things right now, or soon.
Blizzard won't make any major changes or add new spells, especially not right now, some changes will come by 3.2, but not an overhaul.
They clearly stated the patchnotes for 3.2 won't be close to as long as in 3.1, and 3.2 is probably 4month's+ away.

How is Thunderstorm situational? Why would it only work in some cases?
If you throw one away they have to charge again, wasting the CD, or, it could possibly be on CD, since you might cast Thunderstorm right after the warrior intercept/charge you. 20s CD on charge and 30s CD on intercept means there are limitations, they can't keep on charging you over and over again, and changing stance to intercept means the warrior has to sacrifice something.

[Omanley]

I would rather see it stay the way it is for the knockback, and have to glyph to remove it still.

having the glyph add the knockback is much better, as it harms more as it helps knocking back multiple enemies in pve. i dont want to have to glyph into thunderstorm and sacrifice another glyph for it which would bring more dmg on the table.

nice idea i may add.

[Nangz]

personally the idea of having any shaman thunderfuck me off EOTS or LM sux

then again i agree killing shamans is easy for both my dk and my feral druid

and LB is good for ele mainly i'd say go for it blizz

[Snoogle]

;D gogo Official Forums! its already on the US ones, gogo EU!

[Jeezredeemer]

personally the idea of having any shaman thunderfuck me off EOTS or LM sux

Its thunderfart:P

[Myzou]

Cause you know, giving shamans LavaBurst as a 51 point talent is ALWAYS a good idea. You realize how buffed/OP it'd have to be/become?

[Fenrir The Phantom]

buffed LB=new faceroll=win
as enhance and ele i would love having thunderstorm base line and make lava burst ele 51 talent enhance and restro dont use lava burst very much if at all besides pvp use

[Jeezredeemer]

Cause you know, giving shamans LavaBurst as a 51 point talent is ALWAYS a good idea. You realize how buffed/OP it'd have to be/become?

Hahaha,shaman op? Made my day..

[Spurlij]

This actually sounds like a great idea. All the reasoning you gave made sense and is much more logical than the current situation. I hope blizzard really contemplates this idea.

[Nangz]

Cause you know, giving shamans LavaBurst as a 51 point talent is ALWAYS a good idea. You realize how buffed/OP it'd have to be/become?

lol cuz 20k crits aren't buffed enough already? i got hit by a 15k one of these from an ENHANCEMENT SHAMAN

[Abolishment]

People often confuse what they need with what they deserve, vs what they actually get. Saying "an ability that I don't ever use, traded for the pinnacle ability of the elemental tree sounds like a good deal" is a very big problem for some people- namely the ones who are Elemental, and recognize that they're not in a very good place either.

Across the board, Shamans are lacking. They have a few PvP gimmicks, a loosely defined role in PvE, and three 'not-quite there yet' specs. Bringing a substantial part of one spec into the other two, without overstepping boundaries or reimbursing the spec that would be giving away an integral part of their play style?

Elemental's Lava Burst would have to become so amazing that the other two specs would want it over Thunderstorm. Or we'd have to make Earth Shield and RapeWolves baseline too. I never use Earthliving Weapon as Elemental, but if I was to make the same offer- Earthliving 51-point talent, Earth Shield baseline, you would expect the same reaction from Resto Shamans:

"We're not doing much better than our other two specs. Why buff them while sidestepping us?"

[Abolishment]

lol cuz 20k crits aren't buffed enough already? i got hit by a 15k one of these from an ENHANCEMENT SHAMAN

Stay out of Wintergrasp then. To the rest of the world, Lava Burst isn't nearly as overpowered as we'd like it to be.

[Jeezredeemer]

Oh,btw sorry,i offtopped a bit :P,speaking of thunderfart trainable its great idea,aspeccialy for my pvp ele spec where i cant have it .

[Jeezredeemer]

Stay out of Wintergrasp then. To the rest of the world, Lava Burst isn't nearly as overpowered as we'd like it to be.

True,im pve ele in ulduar and excluding some fights like Thaddius in Naxx i never got 20k LvB

[Wrathonia]

That doesn't help the huge problems that elemental has. Especially in pvp. You are trying to steal my thunder....storm! Stop it!

[Debased]

lol cuz 20k crits aren't buffed enough already? i got hit by a 15k one of these from an ENHANCEMENT SHAMAN

He plays on a server, that is like 6:1 (A:H). I'm sure it was in WG.