Ret DPS changes (given Blues)

[Ronark]

Editting this topic to stay updated with Blue posts on Ret DPS changes!

I'm interested to see how SoVeng/SoCorr will be changed for PvE DPS.... as of now, the DoT ticks use the spell hit table, which would mean we now need a shit-brick load more of hit to make it useful. However, I can see Judgement damage being higher now for Single -target DPS (keeping with more stacks = more Judgement damage). Also, that Tier 1 Holy talent now looks VERY promising.
Maybe we can also see a deep-Ret talent that has CS/DS dealing more damage per application of the SoVeng DoT on the mob

**NEW**Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.

Given the above, I bet a new FCFS "rotation" will be: Judge (if at 5 SoVen stacks ) > (HoW) > DS > CS > Cons. > Exo > HoW


Seal of Command.... I don't know what they will do with this one. Hopefully make it a hell of a lot better.
**NEW** Redesigned. This seal now deals 36% weapon damage on every swing, and deals substantially less judgement damage.


Potential Glyph changes:
SoVeng: Can still possibly give Expertise rating when used... maybe increases the amount it stacks on the target by X, or reduce the time for the DoT to tick by Y?
Crusader Strike: Increases its damage by X, rather than reducing mana cost.
Exorcism: Probably the same. If burst in PvP is too high, it could reduce it's cooldown by 5 seconds instead of providing 20% more damage (this provides a gain in Steady DPS, but a reduction in Burst DPS).
**NEW**Glyph of Seal of Command would be changed accordingly. Causes the Paladin to gain 8% of base mana each time the paladin judges Command.
**NEW** Glyph of Seal of Blood: Changed to Glyph of Holy Wrath, which reduces its cooldown by 15 seconds.

The vindication change seems alright.... but it would be rendered useless against Caster-type mobs. We'll have to wait it out and see what they do with it.

Thoughts?

[Kairu]

I think Exo might be a little higher on the priority, just to keep it on cooldown, since you are more likely to get many crits for the instant exo.

Maybe put it before consecrate, possibly before CS (Since its only a 4s cooldown, now, it won't be hitting TOO hard, i think)

It'd be nice if the expertise was kept on the glyph (Both for prot, and ret, since we lack an expertise talent) and, yeah, like you said, maybe increase the rate of stacking debuffs (But reduce the threat a little bit, to reduce threat overpoweredness to prot, which would only effect prot slightly, not make it a huge nerf)

Exo glyph probably the same, maybe increase its chance to hit? (No ret is going for spell hit cap)


I really wanna see what they do with command, though.

[Ronark]

EDIT: Heres a post from GC:

Seal of Command
OLD: Gives the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage.
NEW: All melee attacks deal additional Holy damage.

Seal of Vengeance / Corruption
OLD: Fills the Paladin with holy power, causing attacks to apply Holy Vengeance which deals additional holy damage over 15 seconds. Holy Vengeance can stack up to 5 times.

NEW: Fills the Paladin with holy power, causing attacks to apply Holy Vengeance, which deals additional Holy damage over 15 sec. Holy Vengeance can stack up to 5 times. Once stacked to 5 times, each of the Paladin's attacks also deals 33% weapon damage as additional Holy damage.

[Ronark]

So Command will be the new SotM, but with no recoil damage.

Also, I think Righteousness will be getting a bigger buff: Maybe a way to add a portion of total Stamina as damage? **NOTE: This is different than the Stam > SP talent, and would add 50% of your stamina into Righteousness's Battle equation**

[Kairu]

I'm confused, command is returning base mana, but vengeance//corruption is now doing the damage.... is the base mana supposed to be to help pvp with the exorcism mana troubles? Or is command becoming the new PvE seal (It looks like this should be Ven//Corr)

[Mysmere]

36% weapon damage, reduced judge damage.

still boring. waiting on utility.

[Ronark]

I'm confused, command is returning base mana, but vengeance//corruption is now doing the damage.... is the base mana supposed to be to help pvp with the exorcism mana troubles? Or is command becoming the new PvE seal (It looks like this should be Ven//Corr)

JoCommand will refund base mana to help with LOWER level paladins, and I believe it will stack with JotW for 33% mana gain.... the same number that before made us have unlimited mana. Maybe we can spam Consecrate in PvP now? Maybe they will give Consecrate a snare possibly?

No, SoVeng is the PvE seal... once you have 5 stacks of Veng on the target you do more damage. This helps A LOT with single-target DPS.

Also, I'll be editing my first post with the new changes.

[Ronark]

"**NEW** Glyph of Seal of Blood: Changed to Glyph of Holy Wrath, which reduces its cooldown by 15 seconds."

Yay a glyph to a spell I haven't used since Ulduar came out! (And it sucks too!)

Its good for when farming Strath XD

[Kairu]

Its good for when farming Strath XD

# Emblem System Changes

* Both the 10 and 25 player instances of the Crusaders' Coliseum drop a new Emblem of Triumph.
* Any dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone, will now drop Emblems of Conquest instead. Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism.
* The heroic dungeon daily quest will now reward 2 Emblems of Triumph and the normal daily dungeon quest will reward 1 Emblem of Triumph.
* The existing achievements to collect 1, 25, 50, etc. Emblems of Heroism, Valor, and Conquest have been converted to Feats of Strength since Heroism and Valor Emblems are no longer attainable.
* New achievements have been added to collect various amounts of any combination of emblems.

Its good when farming naxx for free t8

[Capta]

Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.

double crits?! looks to me like seal of command is going to get the backseat again

[Kairu]

double crits?! looks to me like seal of command is going to get the backseat again

We don't know what a normal crit is like yet, so a double crit might not be what you think it is.

[RGeneral24]

i alrdy saw SoV in its current state criting 4 5k so maybe the jud dmg was reduced acordignaly

[maharei]

With the SoV changes, will this make armor pen a little nicer for retadins?

I mean, not as great as other stats...but a little nicer seeing as theres so much of it out there.

[Kairu]

With the SoV changes, will this make armor pen a little nicer for retadins?

I mean, not as great as other stats...but a little nicer seeing as theres so much of it out there.

33% bonus is as holy damage.

Though the reduced cooldown on CS makes ArP slightly more appealing, yes.

[maharei]

Got my spells mixed up there in my excitment, lol.

[Ronark]

With the SoV changes, will this make armor pen a little nicer for retadins?

I mean, not as great as other stats...but a little nicer seeing as theres so much of it out there.

We still have only 3 things that benefit from ArP: CS, DS, and White hits.

It'll probably stay where it is at now, stat-wise.

[Malus Blackthorne]

We don't know what a normal crit is like yet, so a double crit might not be what you think it is.

Spell crit is 1.5X damage, melee crit is 2.0x damage, or double. Most our stuff is considered melee despite being a spell, and I think that's what they meant with "Double crit".

[Ronark]

Spell crit is 1.5X damage, melee crit is 2.0x damage, or double. Most our stuff is considered melee despite being a spell, and I think that's what they meant with "Double crit".

Right now who knows? Having 5 stacks of Veng up on a target would mean that you are fighting (most likely) one target at a time. Current, Rets are one of (if not the) worst Single-target DPSers, when compared to equally geared players of equal skill. This also fits with Paladins lacking a "Your crits deal and addition X/Y/Z% damage" talent.

Then again, yes, all spells such as Judgement of Veng, Exo, and HW could deal 1.5x damage on crits normally, and 2.0x damage when 5 stacked.

[Kairu]

Spell crit is 1.5X damage, melee crit is 2.0x damage, or double. Most our stuff is considered melee despite being a spell, and I think that's what they meant with "Double crit".

what i more meant, it could be 200% on a 1500 judge, or it could be 200% on a 5000 judge.

[Ronark]

New DPS spec, given the changes we've seen to current talents, spells, and abilities.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?pala...3&version=9947

I have about 5 leftover points: I tossed them in 3/3 Healing Light and 2/2 Divinity, for a 14% increased self-healing.