Pain and Suffering

[Zoulis]

Hmmmm i am wondering of how many talents points to get into PaS.... till now i had 3/3 but i've been thinking that 2/3 would be better...
because the most ticks i get from SW:P are 3... because after that i'm using MF due to my rotation... and when i am doing the 2MF's inbetween the MBs it doesen't even tick once....Isn't this a dps loss?
But then i am thinking in some fights that i need to move all the time...it would be really nice to leave it tick down and then just do a MF get it up again and keep on moving...

raiding ulduar 25 atm 12/14 down working on yogg. if that helps

It's a question i had some time now but i sticked to 3/3 cause i think that the 2nd aspect especially at ulduar helps more... just asking u to check if my decision is right cuase there are people in here that know better than me

Cheers

Zoulis

[Abolishment]

Actually, there's two kinds of spell refreshes now. Soft, and hard.

Hard is when you recast the spell. The duration starts over, and the time before your next tick gets reset as well.

Soft is when the spell's duration is refreshed through a talent or ability, like Pain and Suffering. You don't lose any damage, the duration is refreshed, but the time between ticks doesn't change at all. Shadow Priests do a lot of little damage, so unless you're checking the combat text or recount, those ticks are easy to miss.

It's generally accepted that 3/3 Pain and Suffering is good if you can spare the points. There are times when 66% may as well mean 0%, which leads to your Shadow Word: Pain falling off, taking another global cooldown to reapply it, and the mana hit from recasting.

[Zoulis]

so if i got this right when i refresh my SW:P it goes on ticking from before it doesen't work as a new SW:P?

[Worshaka]

Jesus... I can't believe this topic is still under discussions.

MF refresing of MF does not reset the SW:P tick timer... it merely increases the SW:P duration on the target. Don't ask if this is true or if people can confirm, this is exactly what happens... go cast VT and SW:P on a target dummy for 2 or 3 mins, hard refreshing VT and MF refreshing SW:P and you will notice you get exactly the same amount of ticks from both spells.

3/3 P&S is mandatory, the 33% chance to fail is just bad. There are plenty of times in the rotation/priority (particularly in movement heavy encounters or target switching) where you only get the opportunity to cast MF once for a SW:P refresh and if it fails you will lose a considerable amount of dps having to recast SW:P (potentially without the buffs it had when you first cast it).

Lastly (this has been discussed to death as well) SW:P will continue to keep all non SP buffs at time of casting for the entire duration it's refreshed. That means things like Runes of Power for Iron Council etc. It's a way to get a temp buff to last an entire encounter.

[AetherMcLoud]

Jesus... I can't believe this topic is still under discussions.

Cthulhu... I can't believe someone would mistake Guardian Spirit for Spirit of Redemption and try to flame people for glyphing Guardian Spirit... yet someone did.

And anyway: SW:P will NOT continue to keep non-sp buffs. This has been discussed to death.

[Worshaka]

Yes it does... SW:P gets any buff modifiers applied to it at the time of casting and for the duration of the spell while it is refreshed with MF. That means if you cast SW:P with 10 charges of a thaddius buff, or stacks of a malygos spark or a Iron Council rune of power the SW:P will keep said buff for the entire duration.

The only thing MF refreshes in terms of buffs is changes in your spell power... that means whether it goes up or down.

The above poster is incorrect... I suggest you actually look at your SCT next time and keep track of your SW:P ticks.

[Strykzor]

You could drop 1 or 2 points (2 if u dont mind SWP falling off every once in a while) in P&S in Naxx, but for Sarth, Maly, Ulduar u need it.

Reduced DMG on SWD is ??? , SWD doesn't actually do any damage, no damage no recoil.

[Worshaka]

Not sure what you mean about SW not doing damage... perhaps you are refering to never casting it? While it's not something you regularly cast it certainly has it's uses... being a troll I use SW to help get more out of berserking, has some minor applications on ignis and Freya for the spell lockout abilities and SW is good on the move.

Of course there are some encounters where you want to mitigate any form of damage you take like thorim hard mode and you completely shelve the spell.