Deathgrip

[Yuki333]

The only change that needs to be made to it is that it shouldn't work on a warrior using bladestorm, that's a bit absurd.

[Stieger23]

Yeah! Nerf a tanking ability because whiners piss and moan about it!! I mean, why would any tank need 2 taunts anyway? I mean, warriors, paladins and bear tanks only have 1 taunt, right? No? Oh....

[Knuffelbert]

You should just give up attempting to type, because no DG is not exactly like charge, BUT dks have no mortal strike debuff. So it is on PAR with charge.

DG is basically DK's key ability. Warriors have MS, rogues can stunlock, etc...

If you want to keep your argument above, if i was to cyclone you, then the healer would have a chance to heal to full.

Also, if you get DG'd and gibbed because you were out of LoS of your healer, then you AND your healer should of positioned yourselves better and expected it.

Yeah, different classes are different. So? Someone argued that charge = death grip, which is clearly, by your admision too, wrong. So why are you arguing against someone who said so himself? If you mean "on par" in context of the tool box the individual class brings, then sk-gaming proves you wrong on that account too.

[deneweth]

It's not. At least not in arena. I drink often, and just a second before an enemy team member gets into sight he pulls him backwards. Also pulling an enemy out of sight rom his healer or out of range is extremly useful to say the least. Or in bg to pull that one T8.5 healer into your zerg or similar.

Charge and Deathgrip ist not even comparable.

Your partner could charge someone getting in range to a similar effect.

I'm having a very hard time envisioning this arena match where the DK runs around to get out of LoS of their healer then DGs someone to burst down. This doesn't seem horribly OP considering you have to run around doing nothing to set it up, then burst them down before they can get back in LoS or the healer gets in LoS. Considering a warrior that charges can sit in LoS and just put MS up its hardly OP at all to be able to pull someone out of heal LoS for a few seconds.

If someone is doing arenas without resilience then its not really a DG issue. I'm sorry you feel its OP that you could theoretically pull someone into a "zerg" (who runs 3+ melee 5s?). It would be just as easy for the zerg to all use their gap closer. A warrior charges and its stuns long enough for a hamstring to land and the rogue and ret just run over.

[neck deep]

Yeah! Nerf a tanking ability because whiners piss and moan about it!! I mean, why would any tank need 2 taunts anyway? I mean, warriors, paladins and bear tanks only have 1 taunt, right? No? Oh....

3 minute cooldown aoe "taunts"(more like fixates) are pretty easy to compare to 35 second cooldown single target taunts that are the best peel in the game. shut up.

[Knuffelbert]

Your partner could charge someone getting in range to a similar effect.

I'm having a very hard time envisioning this arena match where the DK runs around to get out of LoS of their healer then DGs someone to burst down. This doesn't seem horribly OP considering you have to run around doing nothing to set it up, then burst them down before they can get back in LoS or the healer gets in LoS. Considering a warrior that charges can sit in LoS and just put MS up its hardly OP at all to be able to pull someone out of heal LoS for a few seconds.

If someone is doing arenas without resilience then its not really a DG issue. I'm sorry you feel its OP that you could theoretically pull someone into a "zerg" (who runs 3+ melee 5s?). It would be just as easy for the zerg to all use their gap closer. A warrior charges and its stuns long enough for a hamstring to land and the rogue and ret just run over.

Is it so hard to understand what I'm writing? I know I have grammar and typing issues once in a while, but that bad?

I specifically said BGs when I meantioend zergs. So I don't know where you get 3vs3 or 5vs5 from. I also didn't say it is OP, I'm saying it is not nearly comparable to charge as someone makes it sound.

If, in my drinking scenario, you find the DK who DGs, thereby adding another 25 yards or so to distance with chains of ice spam, and a warrior who stuns the target for a second or 3 whle mentaining a 50% runspeed is the same. then I don't know how I could pursuade you.

And of course, pulling someone behind a pillar has nothing to do with bursting him down in a couple seconds. It is about adding a couple seconds to a CC chains. I.E. cyclone/sheep/silence the healer, and then drag him behind a pillar, or even better, draggin him down from the dalaran sewer platform. It's situational and combo dependend, but I don't know a sill who isn't.

[axio]

Yeah, different classes are different. So? Someone argued that charge = death grip, which is clearly, by your admision too, wrong. So why are you arguing against someone who said so himself? If you mean "on par" in context of the tool box the individual class brings, then sk-gaming proves you wrong on that account too.

Link?

Also, my post is aimed at his entire post, not just the first sentence, yes I agree that charge is not exactly like DG, nor should it be.

DG becomes more powerful with more players, if you are comparing warriors vs DK's "tool box" 1 on 1 against a dps then DK wins, if against a healer then warrior will probably win.

If you compare them with 2v2 in mind and assuming there is a healer, then yeah warrior has a better "tool box" because of MS debuff.

If you compare them in 3v3 or 5v5, where the DK can pull a player to the rest of their dps and possibly out of range of the healer then this, although handled different, can be just as devastating as mortal strike.

Now, if there is a DK and a MS debuff, then that could be rough but most classes have an "oh shit" ability they can pop to hopefully survive until their healer gets there... unless they are the healer, in which case his/her team should be assisting him.

[dsswoosh]

The only way to fix deathgrip is to give it a 9 second stun.

Then its on par with cheap shot + kidney shot.


ARE YOU HAPPY WHINERS.


Now gtfo cry babies.

[deneweth]

Is it so hard to understand what I'm writing? I know I have grammar and typing issues once in a while, but that bad?

I specifically said BGs when I meantioend zergs. So I don't know where you get 3vs3 or 5vs5 from. I also didn't say it is OP, I'm saying it is not nearly comparable to charge as someone makes it sound.

If, in my drinking scenario, you find the DK who DGs, thereby adding another 25 yards or so to distance with chains of ice spam, and a warrior who stuns the target for a second or 3 whle mentaining a 50% runspeed is the same. then I don't know how I could pursuade you.

And of course, pulling someone behind a pillar has nothing to do with bursting him down in a couple seconds. It is about adding a couple seconds to a CC chains. I.E. cyclone/sheep/silence the healer, and then drag him behind a pillar, or even better, draggin him down from the dalaran sewer platform. It's situational and combo dependend, but I don't know a sill who isn't.

Drop the jackassery. Its not cute and you aren't funny. We disagree and /gasp neither of us is right or wrong. Its an opinion.

Yes you are able to come up with an ideal scenario where DG is OMGNURF OP. I am also able to come up with a similar scenario where its not really that OP compared to the alternatives. The fact is that without DG then DKs have no gap closing and are worthless in pvp. They would gladly trade DG+CoI for charge/intercept/intervene+hamstring.

Half your argument isn't even about death grip. Wouldn't chains of ice, cyclone/sheep/silence or even bursting someone down in a matter of a few seconds be OP? How is DG specifically OP? What does it allow you to do that can't be reproduced with other abilities that is so damn over powered?

Please try to be civil and rational in your arguments. Flaming just makes you look like the kid that lost an arena match and has to QQ on the interweb.

edit: about battle grounds

Please don't even suggest balancing the game around battle grounds. I'm sorry you get DGed into the front lines. Most classes have some sort of defensive or escape abilities to counter this. It really isn't worth balancing the game around it, especially considering the alternative is just letting ranged sit back and pick people off. You're in a battle ground, its a battle and you're going to die.

[Spurmwhale]

I only hope they nerf deathgrip before rated BG's. No way they can let DK ping ponging all over the field happen with a new higly anticipated feature coming. Sorry DK's, expect more nerfs. Some of you need them.

[axio]

I only hope they nerf deathgrip before rated BG's. No way they can let DK ping ponging all over the field happen with a new higly anticipated feature coming. Sorry DK's, expect more nerfs. Some of you need them.

lol, right, nerf DKs because some players actually know how to play! Makes a hell of a lot of sense... You don't even know how the rating system will work, lol.

I rarely see DKs "ping ponging" players around anyway, because it kind of defeats the purpose for another DK to pull the player away from the other melee on him and "ping pong" him...

[Ascendant]

3 minute cooldown aoe "taunts"(more like fixates) are pretty easy to compare to 35 second cooldown single target taunts that are the best peel in the game. shut up.

Except DG isn't a taunt, I thought people had learned this by now. It only fixates the target on you for those 2 seconds then it will be running back to whatever it was pummeling before (Bosses for example don't fly over to the DK).

[Deleted]

Charge and Deathgrip ist not even comparable.

I love when warriors reflect my DG. It's like a flying charge, but without any stun ^^

[neck deep]

Except DG isn't a taunt, I thought people had learned this by now. It only fixates the target on you for those 2 seconds then it will be running back to whatever it was pummeling before (Bosses for example don't fly over to the DK).

nor is challenging shout/roar, or mocking blow. his point was that other classes have 2 taunts, when only paladins do.

[Stieger23]

Except DG isn't a taunt, I thought people had learned this by now. It only fixates the target on you for those 2 seconds then it will be running back to whatever it was pummeling before (Bosses for example don't fly over to the DK).

Yes, it's a fixate. But 3 seconds of threat generation + the need for the previous target to exceed tank threat by 30% since they are no longer in melee range means that it does not function noticeably differently from an actual taunt.

[Acolimitzi]

Ok in that particular instance DG > charge. Warriors still have more tools to close the gap and charge is on a shorter CD. In your example a warrior could still charge or intervene the healer and stun/snare you so the healer could escape.

The point of the comparison that flew over your head is that if you remove DG then DKs can be kited all day long. That would mean they can not (NOT) participate in pvp.

They can be kited without Death Grip, really? They don't have slows? They can't pet stun?

And sure, Warriors can just charge back(assuming they are still in range....which they usually aren't) but what about other classes? What is a Rogue going to do? Sprint? That is nice, once every 3 minutes and assuming you have an available way to clear the chains that are sure to be thrown on you after the DG. What about Paladins? Enh Shaman?

Death Grip forces you to attack the DK because being on a healer is pointless as you will never be able to finish them with a competent DK pulling you away every chance he gets.

[FireBorne]

SUPER MEGA DUPER FAIL!

You sir have made my day!

[Acolimitzi]

You should just give up attempting to type, because no DG is not exactly like charge, BUT dks have no mortal strike debuff. So it is on PAR with charge.

DG is basically DK's key ability. Warriors have MS, rogues can stunlock, etc...

If you want to keep your argument above, if i was to cyclone you, then the healer would have a chance to heal to full.

Also, if you get DG'd and gibbed because you were out of LoS of your healer, then you AND your healer should of positioned yourselves better and expected it.

A cyclone does not leave you 30 yards(usually more) away from your target. Why are you avoiding this? Cyclone and stun locks can be trinketed, allowing you to get back on your target. This is in no way possible vs death grip.

[Raptor]

DG NOT the same as charge
when you use charge on DK - you charge in him, and to him teammate
when you use DG on warrior - you pull him to your teammate (ret pala) and rape his ass before healer can reach that warrior. also that tallent interrupt, glyphed - feral charge.
ALSO DK have a chains of frost or whanever, what slows you down on 100% (95% patch) and that more than harmstring.

[Abolishment]

A cyclone does not leave you 30 yards(usually more) away from your target. Why are you avoiding this? Cyclone and stun locks can be trinketed, allowing you to get back on your target. This is in no way possible vs death grip.

A cyclone is 6 seconds of taking an opponent completely out of the fight. It's not like Polymorph or Blind, where some bad Mage can accidentally break it instantly with a poorly-timed Frost Nova. It's not like Fear or Stuns, where you can be healed through them (hopefully). A PvP trinket has a 2 minute cooldown. A PvP trinket is the -only- counter to Cyclone (except those preemptive Paladin bubbles). If for any reason whatsoever, someone has to use their trinket on something that is NOT Cyclone, you just gave a Druid unlimited access to 6/3/1 seconds of completely taking someone out of the fight. The two cannot be compared. They each have their uses. Crying nerf on one because you don't recognize the value of the other means you do not understand the concept of "class balance" or "separate but equal".

I wouldn't be any more happy if they destroyed DKs, to the point of mandatory re-roll because they are fully useless.
Would be just AWESOME to see them destroyed. This is the only class I really hate, not mainly because they are op, but because I am a rogue, and they are the only class that I cannot faceroll all over, mashing whatever button my cheeks squish into submission while my auto-attack Hamstring+Mortal Strike effects make them completely unresponsive and unhelpable during the 10 seconds they are entirely unable to control their character. I am a rogue, I rolled a rogue so that I wouldn't have to work hard for my honor kills, and the fact that Blizzard is trying to take that away with undodgable damage, physically-applied damage over times, and plate armor is exactly the thing that made me roll a Paladin and perhaps a warrior- because I reroll to whatever is most powerful, all of the time. Forever.
The fact that I am unbeatable 1v1 against anything other than a Death Knight clearly means there is a problem with the Death Knight class.

I read between your lies lines.

DG NOT the same as charge
when you use charge on DK - you charge in him, and to him teammate
when you use DG on warrior - you pull him to your teammate (ret pala) and rape his ass before healer can reach that warrior. also that tallent interrupt, glyphed - feral charge.
ALSO DK have a chains of frost or whanever, what slows you down on 100% (95% patch) and that more than harmstring.

Hamstring has very few things that can remove it. A Priest or Paladin can easily get rid of Chains of Ice as fast as it is applied. During the first five seconds of Chains of Ice, it is stronger than Hamstring. During the last five, it is not.

They can be kited without Death Grip, really? They don't have slows? They can't pet stun?

And sure, Warriors can just charge back(assuming they are still in range....which they usually aren't) but what about other classes? What is a Rogue going to do? Sprint? That is nice, once every 3 minutes and assuming you have an available way to clear the chains that are sure to be thrown on you after the DG. What about Paladins? Enh Shaman?

Death Grip forces you to attack the DK because being on a healer is pointless as you will never be able to finish them with a competent DK pulling you away every chance he gets.

Pet Stun is deep unholy talents. If we're to assume every DK is Unholy, and has a permanent pet, shouldn't we also assume that the other classes in question are the most popular/efficient PvP specs? Preperation gives a second, on-demand Sprint. Shamans are being worked on. Paladins can cleanse/remove all snares a DK can apply. You can't say "X ability is overpowered, except against Y ability and Z ability", because then it isn't called "overpowered", it's called "different". Or "competative".

Until Death Knights have a Heal reduction/removal of some sort, Healers will get stronger every new patch, while all Non-Warrior/Rogue DPS will lose their ability to kill said healers.