3.2 Seal of teh pure

[Geafax]

Since seals of the pure buffs Vengeance/corruption by 15% which is very big.
now is it worth investing the 5 poitns in for Pve or Pvp.

I know fro certain ti will be mandatory for pve since the 5 dots and 33% wep dmg bonus would be a huge increase of dmg with the 15% So we may see some Hybrid rets going into all 3 specs for dps increase.

Now a real topic for discussion is Are these 5 points really worth it. Because if you do invest 5 points into holy you do lose your ability to go into improved hammer soo which one will people prefer in arena pvp.

Note: this topic is for Ret arena specs or pve specs

[Veliane]

Are you serious?

[Geafax]

y wouldnt i be?

[notintheface]

Are you serious?

Yeah, y wouldnt he be? If he is clueless, it all makes sence

BTW, lol @

fro certain

It's fro shu niggeh!

[Baabinator]

It would probably come down to:

Seal of Corruption : PVE With 5/5 in that holy talent
Seal of Command : PVP rest in prot for utility.

On a side note: Seal of corruption on 5 stacks causes ALL attacks to deal additional holy damage, which on a crit counts as a spell (dealing more damage oO)

[Geafax]

and with 15% increase i believe Seal of corruption will destroy seal of command in dps

[bunnyhat]

We will be needing to do quite a lot of testing to figure out what seals are for what and how well they work.


I do like the idea of removing seal of blood. It was an outdated mechanic and hard to make it and command both have a use.
I will love to be able to dps like other classes without having to also tax a healers mana to keep me up.

[Geafax]

yes i liked the idea 2. The damage done back to me in arenas really did cost me some matches for i run a double dps ret pally/ frost mage team.

Anyway lets do some theories.

* Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.


ok so say you do 100 damage every swing witha 2h(easy number)
you stack up 5 dots doing 10 damage every 3 seconds so to speak.

Once it reaches 5 stacks you start doing 100 damage +33 damage from 5 specs( and if crit the damge is doubled to 100+66) plus the dot doing 10 damage per 3 second.

Now Seal of Command= Seal of Command: Redesigned. This seal now deals 36% weapon damage on every swing, and deals substantially less judgement damage.

so basically 36% weapon damage every swing

So 100 damage every swing +36 damage=136 compared to the 133 to Seal of V/C but compared to SoV/C the dot effect will surpass the damage brought from Seal of Command.

Now if you had 15% increase from seals of the pure, you get from 100+33(66 form crit). To 100+ 37.5( 75.9) if crit and done every time if 5 stacks r up.


IN conclusion it seems as if the damage done from SoV/C will surpass SoC easily. And if you think about it Both the Seal of V/C damage can crit as wella s SOC.

Also another note: Seal of Command: Redesigned. This seal now deals 36% weapon damage on every swing, and deals substantially less judgement damage.

While SoV/C judgement damage stays the same + the 15% form talents..


what do u guys say

[bunnyhat]

I think the only problem would be in pvp when you switch targets often and the stacks fall off.


Sometimes you will not be able to wait to reapply all 5 stacks over and over again and just want the strait burst that command will still offer.

[Sartecho]

I think it's premature to really sort this out until after the PTR is up. GC stated that all talents, glyphs, etc. relevant to the abilities they changed would also be looked at. This means that they could very easily end up changing Seals of the Pure to exclude seals that rets use.

If they do leave it as is, I'm going to find it very hard to sort out where I want to pull the talent points from to move over to the holy tree. I'm in love with my 2/2 Divine Guardian and I don't know how I could give up the 2/2 Imp Hammer of Justice. Nothing in the ret tree looks like fun to give up either. Though admittedly choosing between extra defensive strength (Div Guardian) or offensive power (Seals of the Pure) seems like a fair choice to force onto a hybrid class.

[elcher]

I say goodbye WOTLK and WOW, I dont intend to live up TBC anymore, paladin is getting nerfed hard, and were gonna suck in pvp again. Rerolling rogue who is overpowered class since day one and they never nerf it

gc himself said that ret pve dmg should go up...
dun dun duuun

o rlly?

ya rlly!

[Babypost]

gc himself said that ret pve dmg should go up...
dun dun duuun

o rlly?

ya rlly!

o rly?!

EDIT: Link please?

[Nece]

gc himself said that ret pve dmg should go up...
dun dun duuun

o rlly?

ya rlly!

He also said Consencrate should be part of our "rotation". Just wait and see guys..I dont foresee anything bad in this patch except in pvp we will rely more on our teammates. 3v3 and 5v5 since 2v2 is dead...or is it o.O

[Codydude815]

I say goodbye WOTLK and WOW, I dont intend to live up TBC anymore, paladin is getting nerfed hard, and were gonna suck in pvp again. Rerolling rogue who is overpowered class since day one and they never nerf it

Ya know, it's pretty funny when you make an account just to call out people like this.

How much paint-thinner did you sniff when you were 10? There is absolutely no nerf to ret. In fact, the way the math is looking atm, we're getting a pretty solid buff. We're going to be just fine iv PvP still, which "nerf" are you referring to that's going to make us suck so bad? Hmm? Please, show me the numbers you have crunched, and obviously whole-heartedly believe, to make yourself look like such an uneducated douche bag?

[Sartecho]

o rly?!

EDIT: Link please?

"PvE sustained damage should go up." That's not the best quote regarding that subject, I've seen others, just can't remember exactly where to be able to quote them.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/1789...-3-inches.html

[The_Flying_Dog]

I like to DoT faces so SoV will be pure win for me! :>

[onaqui]

* Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned to deal substantially more damage. Now, once a paladin has 5 copies of the debuff from these seals on his or her target, on each swing the paladin will deal 33% weapon damage as Holy, with critical strikes dealing double damage.


ok so say you do 100 damage every swing witha 2h(easy number)
you stack up 5 dots doing 10 damage every 3 seconds so to speak.

Once it reaches 5 stacks you start doing 100 damage +33 damage from 5 specs( and if crit the damge is doubled to 100+66) plus the dot doing 10 damage per 3 second.

I don't read it like that, i read it as if 33% of your 100 dmg does holy damage instead of physical, meaning 33% of your dmg surpasses the opponents physical dmg reduction. And your crits do double dmg.

Doesn't that make more sense?

[Sartecho]

I totally understand why you'd read it that way, but I don't think that's what they're intending. Remember that now when you have SoV fully stacked, you get some extra dmg with each additional hit instead of additional stacks applying. Merely converting some of your dmg over to holy wouldn't be very exciting. If this is gonna be "the" ret seal, it's likely to be additional damage, which would be consistent with the historical SoV.

[shono99]

I don't read it like that, i read it as if 33% of your 100 dmg does holy damage instead of physical, meaning 33% of your dmg surpasses the opponents physical dmg reduction. And your crits do double dmg.

Doesn't that make more sense?

No, you clearly do not understand how Seal of Corruption worked even pre-WOTLK.

When you have 5 stacks of Vengeance/Corruption, it used to do a small amount of damage as well as keep the restack, kinda like Lacerate does so it refreshes properly. The 33% weapon damage is treated just like Seal of Blood used to be. With a lot of attack power, the DOT component from Seal of Vengeance/Corruption can stack pretty high. It will also give people a reason to steer away from Divine Guardian, and offspecing heavily into Prot with your leftover 17-20 points. They want it that way, do more DPS, or have more defensive tools. Now it's truly meant for Protection Paladins, because it's stupid for a Holy Paladin to sacrifice 8% spell crit, for 5% more healing done, and a longer lasting Sacred Shield, however, it coudl be the argument, sustained vs burst healing, and they did nerf Illumination down to 30%, however increasing mp5 forcing people to gear for mp5 more and steering them away from crit, even though still useful for MT healing.