New Vindication

[Metalgearz]

"Vindication: Redesigned. Now lowers target attack power, is consistent and does not stack with Demoralizing Shout."

Alright, i don't know if any1 has been over this yet but i really think this change is lame, like totally lacking originality or creativity. I remember those blue posts saying Blizzard did not wanna give us copies of warriors abilities because it was poor design or something and they just screwed Vindication to a point that it does not even affect casters anymore.

The problem Blizzard mentioned about Vindication was the Health and Mana consequences of "-20% stats" which completely overshadowed the damage reduction. I understand that the goal was to allow us to debuff our targets by reducing their damage and possibly healing (by reducing spirit). In that case, why don't they just let the ability reduce damage and/or healing cause by the target by lets say 3 to 6 % ? Yes most people will start saying "OP" but my point is "The new Vindication Sux."

[Ronark]

It would mean less class homogenization, having Warriors can Druids debuff AP and Paladins debuffing SP.

[nwo]

The answer is simple:

Blizzard's ultimate goal is to make every class buff/debuff the same in order to stop people from QQing 24/7 on the forums about a certain class being unique and "op" over another.

[Metalgearz]

The answer is simple:

Blizzard's ultimate goal is to make every class buff/debuff the same in order to stop people from QQing 24/7 on the forums about a certain class being unique and "op" over another.

i do not agree.

It clearly appears that they did not find a solution to Problem caused by Vindication.

Besides they refused to give us MS because they said it would be making us too much like warriors and and they wanted to make that debuff rare. for similar reasons they removed the secondary effect of CS (-50% spell damage and healing if u get hit while casting) because it was too much like UA for warriors which actually required the target and to dodge. Now they give us Demo shout. That's just Great.

[nwo]

for similar reasons they removed the secondary effect of CS (-50% spell damage and healing if u get hit while casting) because it was too much like UA for warriors which actually required the target and to dodge.

The effect of CS was never implemented, only rumored to be, therefore it was never removed because it was never there in the first place. Also, UA does not require the target to dodge ever since it was implemented all it takes is a simple rend tick proc which cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

[Metalgearz]

The effect of CS was never implemented, only rumored to be, therefore it was never removed because it was never there in the first place. Also, UA does not require the target to dodge ever since it was implemented all it takes is a simple rend tick proc which cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.

The blue post was here on mmo-champion and a couple of hours later they removed it due to all the QQ and the explanation they provided. It was not a rumor. And UA can require the target to dogde. its all about how u proc http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=7384.

here is the ability u can check: http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=46860

And people complained because they had to proc overpower in the first place (from dogde or http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=56638 or with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=43422) while ret paly just had to hit their target at anytime they wanted.

I am talking about what the abilities were when the blue post came, not what they became later.

[shags the penguin]

This whole patch makes you more like warriors...

Divine storm = warriors whirlwind ( same CD i think) Both AOE moves
crusader strike = warriors BT ( 4 second CD )
exorcism = slam ( both 1.5 second cast )
art of war = bloodsurge ( both can proc to make 1.5 second cast instant )
you now have Demo shout ( melee AP debuff )


do forgive me if I got some pally names wrong, but overall the pve rotations are the same ( a few different bits but the same idea at least )

[Metalgearz]

This whole patch makes you more like warriors...

Divine storm = warriors whirlwind ( same CD i think) Both AOE moves
crusader strike = warriors BT ( 4 second CD )
exorcism = slam ( both 1.5 second cast )
art of war = bloodsurge ( both can proc to make 1.5 second cast instant )
you now have Demo shout ( melee AP debuff )


do forgive me if I got some pally names wrong, but overall the pve rotations are the same ( a few different bits but the same idea at least )

Well then, why don't they give us MS?

[Parietis]

The blue post was here on mmo-champion and a couple of hours later they removed it due to all the QQ and the explanation they provided. It was not a rumor. And UA can require the target to dogde. its all about how u proc http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=7384.

What he was saying is that that version of Crusader Strike never saw the light of day, it was an experiment from a Blizzard internal build that they accidentally put in the PTR patch notes. We weren't even supposed to have heard about it. And they didn't remove it "due to QQ," no one ever saw it. It was removed because they didn't like it.

[Astray]

As a pve-player i welcome the change. So finally there will be a class bringing the AP debuff again.

[Metalgearz]

As a pve-player i welcome the change. So finally there will be a class bringing the AP debuff again.

and u don't think it lacks creativity?

[Metalgearz]

What he was saying is that that version of Crusader Strike never saw the light of day, it was an experiment from a Blizzard internal build that they accidentally put in the PTR patch notes. We weren't even supposed to have heard about it. And they didn't remove it "due to QQ," no one ever saw it. It was removed because they didn't like it.

yeah and we r just supposed to believe that is was never meant to come out; that it was a mistake.

[Astray]

and u don't think it lacks creativity?

I hope they save their creativity for crusader strikes nice little bonus effect.

[Alseria]

Paladins whine they miss MS effect and slow. But vindication change is simple lack of creativity. Ye right

[Horatio]

"The new Vindication Sux."

qft :

[Abandon]

Well then, why don't they give us MS?

Because you still have healing spells, would be my guess.

[smapple]

I think Vindication would be a little more interesting if it worked a little more like shadows embrace in the lock afflic tree/shadow weaving in the priest shadow tree. It could increase the holy damage the target recieves from you, and the amount of healing it recieves decreased or something like that.

An attack power reduction seems a little boring. :-\

[Shuji1987]

Best change ever!






Not... Very original though.





NOT!

[Xucuroz]

It does indeed suck. I mean, i don't think i'll even bother putting points in it. The real reason Blizzard changed it, was to make it a hit against melee classes and have no affect on casters. Still i'd probably still prefer the "hot fixed" vindication over it the new one.

[iktankniet]

this change only made vindication better for pve then it was. usable on all mobs instead of just 50% or less of the trash.

pvp its a nerf of the nerfed version idd.