Question about prot pala from an other tank

[Alandris]

Allright so there is in my guild a prot pala who is stacking BV and SBV .. i'd like to know if it's a good way to go i mean he has the least HPpool of our tank he told me he was doing that so he could have more proc etc .... but since Ulduar is a lot about taking some big nasty hits i'd like to talk with him about trying to go more for stam

thing is i'm a bit clueless with prot pally . So here are his stats from armory :


* Armor : 24519
* Défence : 551
* Dodge : 21.13%
* Parry : 19.53%
* Block : 29.77%
* hit : 52
* Expertise : 15

HP : 28.334
SBV : 424


so if somebody can tell me if it's right or wrong and explain it it would be nice thanks !


edit : spec 5/56/10

[Offhand]

He's way over block cap, meaning a whole bunch of the SBR on his gear is doing nothing.

I don't really hate BV, although is it measurably weaker than other stats. IDK what trinkets he could be using (greatness, and the H VH one are my best guesses) but if he swapped them around for double stam he likely wouldn't be too far behind the other tanks health wise.

Block value is pretty much not feasible to stack with the current itemization. BV and SBR are paired together too frequently on gear and strength is more offensively beneficial.

Spec: 53/18 no reason not to.

Yes, he's doing it wrong. An actual armory link would help me out more.

[Alandris]

here is the link

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...gar&n=Indralis


edit : he has definitely no trouble holding aggro

[Xthform]

Well blizz is about to buff BV next patch and they have major plans to rework blocking as a whole in coming patches so stacking block isn't a terrible idea. As for him having the least health pool of your tanks pallies usually have the lowest health of all tanks and 28k isn't terrible going into ulduar.

[b37x]

He needs to run Heroic AN every day for Essence of Gossamer (swap out Lavanthor's).

Activating socket bonuses and meta gems if fine, but he really should try to get Stamina in is many gem slots as possible (I'm mostly referring to belt, necklace, and boots... but pants could probably use regemming too).

Unless they completely rework blocking, it isn't going to do him any good against magic damage. So I wouldn't recommend stacking BV over stamina.

[Offhand]

here is the link

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...gar&n=Indralis

He certainly needs to drop the parry and expertise gems and fix the trinket situation. Nothing I wasn't already expecting.

Tell him that much shield block does literally nothing for him.

[Doddilus]

get rid of the glyph of concecration and pick up glyph of divine plea.

expertise isn't great for pallys, most of our attacks are spells and cannot be dodged or parried, so whatever comes with the gear is fine, certainly dont gem for it. Same goes for parry, it takes 42ish parry rating to get 1% parry, it takes 35ish dodge rating to get 1% dodge, yet the gems are the same ammount.
Socket bonuses are rarely worth geming for.

if you plan on him main tanking, he'll need to ditch the BV gear and pick up more avoidance gear untill 3.2(we'll see how the block change pans out)
if he's just an OT he'll do fine in full block gear. Hit rating suffers cause for some reason block and hit are never together on gear.

spec could use some tweaks, but meh not that important

[Lumidar]

Glyph of Seal of Vengeance is the only Expertise he needs. gem Stam/Def/Dodge as needed.

[Alandris]

thanks for the comments i'll discuss about those things that you pointed out with him .

i'm usually MT (blood dk tank) i'm like 6k hp over him as the bosses hit like trucks it's more confortable for healers that's why i was kinda worried about his health and him gemming for parry/exp

[Draco cracona]

Drop Block rat to a point where he's at 102.4% (he's at ~109% atm, cba to DR the miss to check exactly) dodge+parry+block+miss, after applying miss DR and HS; drop consecration glyph and learn the basic rotation; drop SotP and some from divinity to go deeper ret; DP glyph; never gem expertise/parry; explain to him how the combat table works as he probably doesn't know; stam trinkets; red gems should be dodge/sta; yellow should be def/sta; blue/prismatic should be stam assuming you can keep at 102.4%, remembering not to go for bad bonuses like the chest in this case, and maybe the legs. A pure mitigation gearstyle like his doesn't work too well because a lot of the stats are wasted; the T8 gloves are nice but an exception to BV being almost always paired with block rat - only those and the boots from uld offhand like that iirc, but even if there are a few more, there's not many.

Maintankadin/here/EJ will have a decent explanation of the standard 969 rotation, and why not to use the consec glyph; there should also be an explanation of how the combat table works, and thus why his block rat is wasted.

[Mutin]

Stacking stamina is the way to go, for all tanks. Atleast if ur making serious atempts on hardmodes. Relying on RNG is no use, and rather have 5k more hp for your healers to react, than 2k less damage.
Healer mana is not a serious problem after all.

[breath]

Stacking stamina is the way to go, for all tanks. Atleast if ur making serious atempts on hardmodes. Relying on RNG is no use, and rather have 5k more hp for your healers to react, than 2k less damage.
Healer mana is not a serious problem after all.

Stacking any stats its neve the way to go, cause of the DR.

He obviously is going too far with block rating. Atm Block Value isn't that good and Blizzard noticed it, they will buff it "they said" or change it.

As far as i can see, your friend is way above 102,4% avoidance (holy shield up), going above that its useless, when you reach that percentage you pushed away any normal hit, and you are going only to see missed, dodged, parried, blocked hits, so going above 102,4% doesn't give any bonus.

He is wasting a lot of stats to get more avoidance, something he doesn't need.

Tell him to lower his avoidance cause its useless, add more stamina or sbv or dodge/parry ("what you said not more avoidance" yes but you are going lower your overall avoidance changing from Block rating to Dodge or Parry, cause these 2 last stats cost more on items).

Also you can't really say, goooooo full out on stamina or sbv or something else, it only depends on what you are going to do, i have 3 different tanking sets, and any tank should. Trash tanking, aoe tanking, boss tanking, off tanking, they all require different sets.

Having 5k hp more is good, but isn't always that will matter.

[saranya]

he's way better off from a threat/dps perspective by dropping "seals of the pure" and "divinity" and getting convinction+crusade, it's been pretty much "theorycrafted".

it's been pretty much determined that divinity is pretty useless.

also, what others have said. pallys should not be gemming for parry or expertise. he's better off putting in agi+sta purple gems for red sockets.

and from a diminishing returns perspective...agi will do more than straight dodge.

your pally needs to do some research on his class. no top end guild would take him the way he's going.

[Svenskpally]

this is not about the OP post to do, but what dose the 102,4 % avoidence stands for, and how do i know i am on it?

[gatgat]

I dont necessarily stack stam, but basically all red sockets are agi/stam all other sockets are 24 stam, im a JC so i use dragons eyes in yellow sockets.

His stats are really low, I assume from the mix of gear your just starting out in Ulduar. But in my normal tanking gear im at 36k HP and around 47% dodge+parry but I only run wiht 14 block...block rating sucks once you have block cap.

[grymgroeth]

As a pally that likes block value, his block rating is way too high. His spec is off as well, tanks have no reason to put points in holy, ever. 1 of his major glyphs needs to be changed to Divine Plea. Hit rating needs to come up. Crit chance can be corrected thru talents (tankadin should run ~20% unbuffed). His gemming is, frankly, horrible.

[breath]

this is not about the OP post to do, but what dose the 102,4 % avoidence stands for, and how do i know i am on it?

There is something like a table to calculate if you are hit, miss or anything. Pushing our avoidance to 102,4% (avoidance = percentage ofparry+dodge+block), would result in you not getting any full hit, but just miss or dodge or parry or blocked hit (usually you will have a lot more blocked hits cause your block percentage is way higher of your parry/dodge).

So, when you reach that point, you dont want to go further, it's useless (if you cant get full hits, at this point you want to begin to switch from block % to dodge/parry %, cause its always better to dodge/parry then block, or get more stamina staying in the 102,4%)

Search in google for Avoidance (elitist jerk or maintankadin) to find the full math beyond this, and also you will find the macro to check your current avoidance (put holy shield up before using the macro).

[Draco cracona]

There is something like a table to calculate if you are hit, miss or anything. Pushing our avoidance to 102,4% (avoidance = percentage ofparry+dodge+block), would result in you not getting any full hit, but just miss or dodge or parry or blocked hit (usually you will have a lot more blocked hits cause your block percentage is way higher of your parry/dodge).

So, when you reach that point, you dont want to go further, it's useless (if you cant get full hits, at this point you want to begin to switch from block % to dodge/parry %, cause its always better to dodge/parry then block, or get more stamina staying in the 102,4%)

Search in google for Avoidance (elitist jerk or maintankadin) to find the full math beyond this, and also you will find the macro to check your current avoidance (put holy shield up before using the macro).

Dodge+block+parry+35%+(1/16+.956/miss)^-1 using numbers from your charsheet. You don't need a macro for that.

It's worth pointing out that agi gives less avoidance per point than dodge, so dodge is generally the way to go for gems.

Saryana - dodge from agi is added to the dodge total BEFORE DR is applied, thus DR does not factor into agi v dodge.

[Biznick]

BV is awesome, the only problems with it is that it usually comes paired with BR


though it is smart to stack at little block as possible, while still having dodge and parry still getting him to 102.4% avoidance... because no matter what you do, block is going to be his highest chance of avoidance.. so hes gonna wanna minimize that as much as possible.... even after 3.2

[Saraduahn]

thanks for the comments i'll discuss about those things that you pointed out with him .

i'm usually MT (blood dk tank) i'm like 6k hp over him as the bosses hit like trucks it's more confortable for healers that's why i was kinda worried about his health and him gemming for parry/exp

Whew. He has a lot of stuff "wrong" with his current setup.

- His spec is a little sub-optimal. 5/5 Conviction in the ret tree is better tps than 5/5 Seals of the Pure, since patch 3.1.
- One of his glyphs is just wrong. Glyph of Consecration actually means, by definition, that he's doing a sub-optimal dps/tps rotation, because the extra 2 seconds on the Consecrate cooldown from the glyph ruins the rotation. In any event, he should ABSOLUTELY, EQUIVOCALLY be using the Glyph of Divine Plea. It is really the one MANDATORY pally tank glyph - a flat 3% damage reduction that stacks on top of everything else. He needs to get it. Immediately.
- He should not be gemming for parry, at all. Point for point, dodge is better than parry for him, since his dodge is not nearly high enough to be subject to enough diminishing returns for parry to be feasible. Also, don't glyph for expertise, at all. Pallies have a ton of threat already, and he's already nearly expertise capped from just his other gear and his glyphs.
- He is WAY over the block cap when holy shield is up (which should be virtually 100% of the time unless he's tanking A LOT of adds; it will be 100% uptime on bosses if he does the proper rotation). He could lose about 10% of his block rating and STILL be block capped with holy shield, which means the excess block rating is a TOTAL waste. Thus, for example, his block trinket is a TOTAL waste - and getting an Essence of Gossamer into that slot would also go a long way to fix his stamina (yes, it's definitely a bit low for Ulduar tanking, especially on 25-man). He needs to read up on 102.4%, what it is, and why it's important. Also, more stamina/def in yellow slots and stamina/dodge in red slots would help stamina a bit too.
- In terms of block overall... as some others have pointed out in this thread, it just doesn't cut it right now. Even with the enhancements in patch 3.2, it probably still won't cut it for main-tanking bosses at Ulduar-25 (or likely the next tier of content as well). The block just doesn't take enough off of bosses that bring incoming hits of ~18k to as much as 25k. The avoidance is radically more favorable. Now, if he is solely an off-tank for trash, his set isn't unreasonable (aside from the excess block rating); but for maintanking any Ulduar bosses (even ones where he just has to taunt to hold them, like Razorscale phase 2, Thorim phase 2, or Kologarn main body), his stamina is low and his avoidance is low and I suspect your healers will notice it's more difficult to keep him up (especially on top of his lack of the Divine Plea glyph).

If you want a sample of a main-tank build, gearing, enchant, gem, etc., choices for a Paladin, take a look at my armory in my signature.


Oh, and on a minor note, he needs a stam enchant on his boots.