Iron Council Hard Mode

[zipz]

I'm kinda wondering what the split is for how guilds choose to do Iron council hard mode. My guild has tried both methods (killing brundir first, or molgeim first) and had mixed results. Killing molgeim first makes getting to phase 3 a joke, but dps seems pressed to keep up once we reach it. We generally get sub 10% before someone dies. Killing brundir first can turn into a big fail-heal fest between melee static/rune of death gibs, which limits our serious phase 3 attempts drastically. However, the enticing part of this strategy is timing a rune of power right as molgeim dies so we can nuke steel. What are people's opinions on which method to stick with and bang away at it? Starting to get a little frustrated.

[Noxia]

I'm kinda wondering what the split is for how guilds choose to do Iron council hard mode. My guild has tried both methods (killing brundir first, or molgeim first) and had mixed results. Killing molgeim first makes getting to phase 3 a joke, but dps seems pressed to keep up once we reach it. We generally get sub 10% before someone dies. Killing brundir first can turn into a big fail-heal fest between melee static/rune of death gibs, which limits our serious phase 3 attempts drastically. What are people's opinions on which method to stick with and bang away at it? Starting to get a little frustrated.

I have found best results in killing molgeim first. Your DPS just needs to shape up for p3.

[Impurath]

Not sure if you are talking about 10 or 25man but our 10 man group has been killing Brundir first always. Just spread out more when killing Molgeim after Brundir is dead.

[zipz]

I should clarify, this is in regards to 25 man. Whats the spread on how many healers you bring with regard to each method?

[Svv]

Kill Molgeim first.

If you're doing it that way and getting to P3 easy, then that's your best shot. The extra Rune of Power may be nice, by it my no means should be necessary for your DPS to burn down Steel fast enough. If you're having problems with DPSing him down (with no deaths) then your problem is your DPS, and it likely needs tuning.

Some suggestions - before Brundir dies (and with enough time between Overloads) pull Steel and him together. Now have a Warrior start stacking sunders on Steel and all DPS should throw out their DoTs and start building initial rotations, then nuke Brundir down and swiftly switch back to Steel.

Another tip we found useful was when to use Bloodlust. We popped ours RIGHT after the first tank that died was brezed.

Anyway, GL.

[Nezoia]

Kill Runemaster Molgeim, and then group both bosses underneth eachother, and have 3 soakers outside (Shadowpriests is a good choice).

Then it's just a question of nobody failing from Overload, and doing enough dps in P3. Extremely simple.

Another tip we found useful was when to use Bloodlust. We popped ours RIGHT after the first tank that died was brezed.

You really want to pop Bloodlust as soon as you go on Steelbreaker.

It's better utilized for the casters with Wild Magic potions, and brings the boss to 30% faster, so melee can use their special abilities.

[zipz]

We generally lust 5 seconds in. We have the soakers situation down. SVV how many healers do you run with? Is 4 enough or do you need 5.

[TheMediator]

Middle Small Big. Runes of Death are just a pain in the ass to deal with compared to what junior can throw at ya.

[Svv]

You really want to pop Bloodlust as soon as you go on Steelbreaker.

It's better utilized for the casters with Wild Magic potions, and brings the boss to 30% faster, so melee can use their special abilities.

You forgot your 'IMO.' We spent weeks on this and found what was best for our comp. Unless you plan to throw out some mathematical models and logically determine that what we did was less optimal, then don't type as if we did what we did because of ignorance and lack of understanding.

Why did we BL when we did? Because the delay helped everything get completely situated and let everyone have a good amount of time for the burst, and also because our second tank did more DPS tanking than our first tank (and tanks with the Meltdown debuff do good DPS, so letting them get a lot of BL helps a decent amount).

We did it with four healers on first few kills, now five (as our DPS is a lot more proficient) - Two Holy Paladins, Resto Druid, and a Holy Priest.

[Jadle]

WE use Heroism late as well, mainly because it helps out our healers when things get pressed and because alot of dps do more damage under 30/20%.

[Callsign Grunge]

Kill Runemaster Molgeim, and then group both bosses underneth eachother, and have 3 soakers outside (Shadowpriests is a good choice).

Then it's just a question of nobody failing from Overload, and doing enough dps in P3. Extremely simple.
You really want to pop Bloodlust as soon as you go on Steelbreaker.

It's better utilized for the casters with Wild Magic potions, and brings the boss to 30% faster, so melee can use their special abilities.

The DPS in phase 3 is the most important part, other than fusion punch getting cleansed early on.

[Taurentony]

Middle Small Big. Runes of Death are just a pain in the ass to deal with compared to what junior can throw at ya.

[LeVvE]

We do it like this:

Pull boss and keep Brundir at the back and pull the other two away.
Kill Runemaster
Pull Brundir to middle on top of other boss and have melee interrupting
Kill Brundir
Start nuking all you got!
Tank Switch
Heroism
Dead boss

[Atty]

WE use Heroism late as well, mainly because it helps out our healers when things get pressed and because alot of dps do more damage under 30/20%.

Using BL during execute phase is a bad idea because it reduces the time you spend in that phase. However, using it early to bring the boss to execute phase asap to allow more time in execute phase is generally a better idea.

[Esrgoode]

What healer set-ups are people using?

We had a little looksie before nailing them Medium mode last night, but with only 2*shammy, 1*holy, 1*druid, 3*Pallies healing in P2 was a real pain. Raid damage got on top of us really badly.

What do people use, and what roles (from shammies) do they normally do.

Cheers
Esr.

[A.S.D.]

Guy, I would like to ask you how many healers do you use for 10 men hard mode (and what classes if you use 2 healers)?

If we dp the calculation Stealbreaker has 3 000 000 hp and each time someone dies (first tank) he will gain 20% hp back, which is 600 000 hp.

This means that to get a kill for under 120 sec and 3 healers, the 5 dps-ers need to make around 6k dps (which is hard to achieve for 10 men run).

The tactic I was thinking (but never tried it yet) is this:
When the first tank dies due to melt down, I (the rogue) will take the boss over me (with evasion) just to take the Overwhelming Power buff, then vanish and let the second tank get the boss. This way I will have 200% dps increase and if we dont manage to kill the boss under 120 sec, the raid will still have another 60 sec to finish it with the second tank. The question is - is it possible for a dps-er to take the Overwhelming Power buff without being attacked by the boss (I mean after taunt, ToTT and MS from the hunter, or when I am with the Overwhelming Power buff this makes me target of Stealbreaker untill I die?

Thanks alot

[Deleted]

Use an MS effect to halve the health recieved, that's 300k less and ~500 dps less required from your dps. Also the tanks do have some dps (even nice dps i hear with the debuff) which further reduces the dps requirement for the 5 dps classes.

I've done it 2 times with guildmates with 2 tanks, 3 healers, we were cutting it somewhat close dps wise but downed him without being extraordinary in terms of dps done, so i don't think it needs to be as high as you say.

[A.S.D.]

Thanks for the reply Dje. TBH I didnt know that MS effect works on the boss. I Guess just before the first tank dies, I will swap weapon with WB just to apply it for that very moment and then will go back on IP.

I know that tanks do nice dps and with 200% buff it will be quite more. But still, is it possible for dps-er to take the debuff and then the second tank to take the boss on him (as staded above - me the rogue, take the debuf with evasion on so I dont die instantly, then vanish and ToTT on the second tank)?

[Ashvael]

What healer set-ups are people using?

We had a little looksie before nailing them Medium mode last night, but with only 2*shammy, 1*holy, 1*druid, 3*Pallies healing in P2 was a real pain. Raid damage got on top of us really badly.

What do people use, and what roles (from shammies) do they normally do.

Cheers
Esr.

We usually do it with 5 healers, quite a mixed setup with every healing role in it once if available, else just any 5 healers we got. The shaman usually chain heals (in our guild obviously, don't know about others) the "soakers" who are standing outside taking the debuff in P2 and P3.

Thanks for the reply Dje. TBH I didnt know that MS effect works on the boss. I Guess just before the first tank dies, I will swap weapon with WB just to apply it for that very moment and then will go back on IP.

I know that tanks do nice dps and with 200% buff it will be quite more. But still, is it possible for dps-er to take the debuff and then the second tank to take the boss on him (as staded above - me the rogue, take the debuf with evasion on so I dont die instantly, then vanish and ToTT on the second tank)?

I'm not really sure on this, but just don't risk it. He could still hit you or fusion punch you through cloak, etc. The DPS needed is not really that high considering you can burn all your cooldowns in that phase + tanks dealing rather good damage as well.

[TheMediator]

Guy, I would like to ask you how many healers do you use for 10 men hard mode (and what classes if you use 2 healers)?

If we dp the calculation Stealbreaker has 3 000 000 hp and each time someone dies (first tank) he will gain 20% hp back, which is 600 000 hp.

This means that to get a kill for under 120 sec and 3 healers, the 5 dps-ers need to make around 6k dps (which is hard to achieve for 10 men run).

The tactic I was thinking (but never tried it yet) is this:
When the first tank dies due to melt down, I (the rogue) will take the boss over me (with evasion) just to take the Overwhelming Power buff, then vanish and let the second tank get the boss. This way I will have 200% dps increase and if we dont manage to kill the boss under 120 sec, the raid will still have another 60 sec to finish it with the second tank. The question is - is it possible for a dps-er to take the Overwhelming Power buff without being attacked by the boss (I mean after taunt, ToTT and MS from the hunter, or when I am with the Overwhelming Power buff this makes me target of Stealbreaker untill I die?

Thanks alot

I've 2 healed Steelbreaker (as a resto shaman) with a resto druid, a disc priest, and also a holy paladin, so your choice of healer is irrelevant as long as your healers know what they are doing.

Also, you're going to have at LEAST 33% uptime on bloodlust, so you should be able to drop him pretty easily with 2 healers as long as your DPS aren't total shit.