Should they Redo Warriors like they redid Paladins?

[Bildega]

i say leave prot alone and do something to fury

[Byhaz]

I say are you nuts ??
Prot warriors are the worst tanks atm in all aspects.
leave fury alone you got one good dps spec arms.
Do something about Prot warriors and leave fury is better.

[Bainz]

Be patient, young padawan...

[lave]

huh? how are us paladins different?
retribution also brings low end damage without unique buffs/debuffs that aint covered by others
protection is in the very same boat as you - with more tps but no last stand (yes AD sounds cool, but its not live yet)

really.. blame deathknights or druids for their nice dps and raidleaders wanting them for hardmodes but not paladins :>

[Rafy]

huh? how are us paladins different?
retribution also brings low end damage without unique buffs/debuffs that aint covered by others
protection is in the very same boat as you - with more tps but no last stand (yes AD sounds cool, but its not live yet)

really.. blame deathknights or druids for their nice dps and raidleaders wanting them for hardmodes but not paladins :>

true... ret dps sucks compared to warriors in a lot of situations.
as for tanking, we don't have the AD change yet, and still it's an uncontrollable CD. don't even know when it procced, or how long on the ICD until it's up... GG

[Mak]

thing is warriors cant predict the future and say oh shit i am on 16k HP and i will get hit for 17-20k before any heals land and you cant spam last stand every time you hit low hp right?(low as in <20k which is what many Udluar bosses hit you for)...so what does the warrior do?dies while pala can live thourg the hit and get healed to full most prob before the boss hits again...If that doesnt happen then healers are probably sleeping

[lave]

thing is warriors cant predict the future and say oh shit i am on 16k HP and i will get hit for 17-20k before any heals land and you cant spam last stand every time you hit low hp right?(low as in <20k which is what many Udluar bosses hit you for)...so what does the warrior do?dies while pala can live thourg the hit and get healed to full most prob before the boss hits again...If that doesnt happen then healers are probably sleeping

you are taking 3.2 into account.. that one aint live yet and thus doesnt affect how paladins (aswell as warriors)
suffer from beeing worse than dk/druid for ulduar hardmodes. you're with me until now? fine.

as for AD and 3.2:
yes, not dying and beeing taken back to 30% life is strong.. it pushes your effective health by 30% - just like last stand does but it does that in the very moment you need it. thats the advantage of AD - what you dont see is its drawback.. while last stand increases your EH by 30% for 20seconds, AD does this for exactly 1 enemy attack.
AD is better when an enemy strikes you at a random moment for insane damage (like old brutallus when you had bad avoidance luck while stomped)
AD is worse when you get a constant stream of damage and can tell beforehand when its going to apply (like mimiron phase1)
its cool to survive a critical hit, but unlike last stand AD does nothing for the hit after that one

im not denying that the "when strucked below 35% hp the hit is beeing cut by 30%" part is OP.. in fact it is and no paladin thinks it will go live like this (deathknights had it before and it was nurfed hard for them) but the build in Guardian Angel is fine and not what you should adress when you talk about beeing in disadvantage.

as a sidenote:
the SBV buff that affects both of our classes is much more of a buff for you than for us. not only do you scale better with blockvalue (due to having critical blocks) you also can make use of ulduar blockitems better (since blockvalue mostly comes with blockrating.. wich does absolutly nothing for paladins)

no.. the grass aint greener on our side

[Haaizor]

Still think warriors are fine as prot, they might not be the best but their good enough

[wabun]

as for tanking, we don't have the AD change yet, and still it's an uncontrollable CD. don't even know when it procced, or how long on the ICD until it's up... GG

are you srsly qqing about this??? WTF is up with you??? it´s a permanent half shildwall under 35% life AND a permanent passive Guardian Spirit (btw on a lower cooldown...) and you don´t even have to predict and counteract anything.... again WTF is up with you QQing about not knowing when you are immortal and when you are not... (btw there are addons out there that could tell you when it´s rdy again(/your healers can go brainAFK again) with very little programming effort.

btw: blizz stated warrior tanks are bad atm, they just do not want to change it because there are to many skilled warri tanks who do not want to give up their class they played for more then 4 years...

[Evereghalo]

are you srsly qqing about this??? WTF is up with you??? it´s a permanent half shildwall under 35% life AND a permanent passive Guardian Spirit (btw on a lower cooldown...) and you don´t even have to predict and counteract anything.... again WTF is up with you QQing about not knowing when you are immortal and when you are not... (btw there are addons out there that could tell you when it´s rdy again(/your healers can go brainAFK again) with very little programming effort.

btw: blizz stated warrior tanks are bad atm, they just do not want to change it because there are to many skilled warri tanks who do not want to give up their class they played for more then 4 years...

your dumb,

when warriors say shit like this I think they deserve eatin the dirt and standing under every other tank in the game for their near 4 years of being the only tank in the game.

AD's Guardian Spirit is flash, that is more for fun because there is not active oh shit aspect to it.

IMO it will go live as a stronger will of the necropolis or as is because you can spec deep blood for effective pvp, you cant spec deep prot pally for effective pvp. esp sense 2's is gonna be a ghost town.

[Saerin]

huh? how are us paladins different?
retribution also brings low end damage without unique buffs/debuffs that aint covered by others
protection is in the very same boat as you - with more tps but no last stand (yes AD sounds cool, but its not live yet)

really.. blame deathknights or druids for their nice dps and raidleaders wanting them for hardmodes but not paladins :>

No, really no, we have a ret paladin in our raid that can easily get in top 5.

Also, ret does bring unique buffs, if I'm not correct (Please correct me if I'm not) you have 2 talents, Imp ret aura that increases Damage by everyone by 3% and each time you unleash a seal on the target it increases damage taken by 3%.

That's 2 buffs (Nice ones I might add) that you bring more then a warrior does.

[lave]

No, really no, we have a ret paladin in our raid that can easily get in top 5.

Also, ret does bring unique buffs, if I'm not correct (Please correct me if I'm not) you have 2 talents, Imp ret aura that increases Damage by everyone by 3% and each time you unleash a seal on the target it increases damage taken by 3%.

That's 2 buffs (Nice ones I might add) that you bring more then a warrior does.

ill do that
first: increase crit rating 3%

• this is also done by every protection paladin & almost every holy paladin. in addition this comes from rogue (master poisoner) and shaman (totem of wrath)

second: increase damage by 3%

• this is also done by hunters (ferocious inspiration).. i admit the ret version is a bit more likely to be on the enemy, but same can be said to your sunder amor (vs expose armor of rogues)

so? both bring quite a few buffs/debuffs that can also be covered by different classes guess that what us hybrids are supposed to be like huh?
i'll be fair here.. ret brings 1 single thing that only ret can - judgement of light (other paladins are weaker here) this however is fixed in 3.2

ok then.. ret vs. warr dead even so far.. whats left? oh yes - damage! may i guide you to this link
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/all/7/0/3 < its a top10 player ranking in ulduar for every boss, using every combatlog that has ever been uploaded on wowmeteronline (wich are many!)
there are obviously quite some warlocks, rogues, deathknights (hybrid anyone?) in those lists.. but also a few warriors
like #3 on yogg, #6 on thorim, #5 on thorim(hard), #3 on mimiron (hard) .. oh and just look how #1-4 on mimiron are fury warriors

and now look closely.. whats the class missing in those "top damagedealers of wow" ? right.. paladin

and with that in mind..+ blizzard stating our pve dps is far to low and need fixes in 3.2 and beyound.. youre seriously going to say that paladins have it MUCH better and you want to be LIKE THEM? even if their buffs can be covered elsewere just like your & their dps is even lower? c'mon

as i said above.. blame deathknights & druids for their dps & tanking and leave pallys alone. we suffer from the very same problems if not worse

[Mysmere]

true... ret dps sucks compared to warriors in a lot of situations.
as for tanking, we don't have the AD change yet, and still it's an uncontrollable CD. don't even know when it procced, or how long on the ICD until it's up... GG

there will be mods to track that. not like it matters tho, since theres nothing you can do about it

[Prentice]

No, really no, we have a ret paladin in our raid that can easily get in top 5.

Also, ret does bring unique buffs, if I'm not correct (Please correct me if I'm not) you have 2 talents, Imp ret aura that increases Damage by everyone by 3% and each time you unleash a seal on the target it increases damage taken by 3%.

That's 2 buffs (Nice ones I might add) that you bring more then a warrior does.

Neither of your assumptions are correct. Every unique ability that pallys had was taken away or was shared with another class.

3% damage can be replaced by a hunter's Ferocious Inspiration and the 3% crit can be achieved by Totem of Wrath or by most holy paladins. Replenishment is available from hunters, priests, warlocks, paladins and priests. The 3% haste can be replaced with a boomkin.

[Karadros]

your dumb,

You're ironic.

[UnemMun]

Neither of your assumptions are correct. Every unique ability that pallys had was taken away or was shared with another class.

3% damage can be replaced by a hunter's Ferocious Inspiration and the 3% crit can be achieved by Totem of Wrath or by most holy paladins. Replenishment is available from hunters, priests, warlocks, paladins and priests. The 3% haste can be replaced with a boomkin.

Which classes got Judgements of Wisdom and Light? Blessing of Kings? Hand of Salvation? of Protection? Divine Sacrifice?

I accept your retraction.

[wabun]

your dumb,
when warriors say shit like this I think they deserve eatin the dirt and standing under every other tank in the game for their near 4 years of being the only tank in the game.
AD's Guardian Spirit is flash, that is more for fun because there is not active oh shit aspect to it.
IMO it will go live as a stronger will of the necropolis or as is because you can spec deep blood for effective pvp, you cant spec deep prot pally for effective pvp. esp sense 2's is gonna be a ghost town.

sry but i don´t know what´s dumb by not understanding someone who is complaining about an ability that just got buffed and is a very fine mix of 2 other abilities and also does not even need skill or call it timing (if you think the other is offensive).
also what don´t you 2 like about the guardian spirit being passive?
imagine:
Pala 36k hp buffed
0s Steelbreaker hits with Fusion Punsh for 20k dmg > Pala @ 16k hp
1s Pala is to slow with dispelling Fusion Punsh ticks for 15k dmg > Pala @ 1k hp (no it´s actually higher because of AD but it does not matter)
1.5s Everyone brainlags/has to do other things, no cd is kicked
2.1s Steelbreaker hits for 10k, AD procs (it will allways except your healers suck and let you die more often then once every 2 mins) > Pala @ 10.8k hp
2.2s Heal hits for 22k > Pala @ 32k hp
this raid would just have wiped and it was prevented without anyone wasting a thought about it.
now come on tell me how is this not good? well in a perfect world nobody would have made mistakes and this is maybe not the best example but mistakes are one of the 2 reasons for wipes... and therefore happen or this game would be rly boring.

[Divinestorm]

Which classes got Judgements of Wisdom and Light? Blessing of Kings? Hand of Salvation? of Protection? Divine Sacrifice?

I accept your retraction.

All of which a Holy Paladins can bring to the table. Retribution Paladin lack unique buffs, regardless of what anyone has to say. AD is a needed buff and will improve Paladin tanking.

The only people that will QQ about it are insecure tanks. Paladins are viable, get used to it. Stop bitching on the forums and play the game.

[helloguys]

i see it as:

What will you do with wars?

Blizz employee: like my fellow said in a previous post NERF THEM TO THE GROUND, BABY!

post

[Veyne]

I love my warrior as Arms and as Prot, but Fury could use a face lift.