Lock Mobility

[Mysmere]

ive had eppicced warlocks survive for forever in 5's/3's and ones that fall over as soon as their pet dies. its clearly a matter of A skill, or B gear choice.

[Fingerboy]

Bah, as a lock, i can say that for me, pallies are on farm, even with a bubble. Now, any other melee class? im ruined. There is no chance for me against any other melee class unless the RNG gods love me at that moment (which doesn't seem to happen to often).

[Screwtape]

I can't imagine how annoying threads like these threads would be if I gave a crap about PVP.

[Mysmere]

I can't imagine how annoying threads like these threads would be if I gave a crap about PVP.

your sig applies to yourself. irony.

[Screwtape]

your sig applies to yourself. irony.

That statement was so full of personal rancor that I do not care to dignify it with comment.

However, since you seem intent on rehashing tired old arguments. I will deign to enter this sideshow of an argument (sic).

The problem at hand is that by and large melee (warrior, dk, paladin, ench shaman, feral druid, rogue) are only effective at close range and ranged classes have their effectiveness greatly reduced by pushback(mage, priest, ele shaman, lock), range issues (hunter) and 'melee dancing'. None of this is new.

The paradigm suggested by this thread is that warlocks must either tank i.e. sit there and take it or use escape mechanisms to allow them to act at range.

If you were to tell a mage or a shadow priest that they were to stand next to a melee class and race from 100-0%, obviously that would be silly. Most melee classes have upwards of 1/3 more health and are basically free to do their rotation while spell caster deals with pushback and interrupts (I'll ignore stuns since melee are affected by that too). Now what does a warlock have to counter that?
-Soul link (5% reduced damage as long as pet is alive)
-10% more stamina; ~2k

I'm not going to discount these as good abilities, and certainly they allow the warlock to take marginally more damage then say a mage or a spriest, but are some of you posters seriously suggesting that a warlock can stand toe to toe with a melee class and win? They won't.

Now in order to swing the pendulum back towards the caster we have escape mechanisms:
-Fear- dispellable, resistable, trinketable, cast time, 3rd cast only 1.5 sec (barely more than base cast time); shares drs, etc
-Teleport- 30 sec cd; can't be used in stun or silence
-Shadowfury or CoE (we'll say)
-Death coil- 2 min cd

Granted that looks like a lot, but...only a paladin doesn't have substantial tools to negate these: Pounce, charge and deathgrip could all stop a warlock from casting fear at the 20 yard range. The warlock could open up with immo, conflag, but the daze would not stop the same abilities.

Now we could discuss various scenarios as to why I'm a complete noob who needs to L2P and all warlocks should stfu, but warlocks have been in the bottom 3 of overall arena representation in the SK 100 since before 3.1 came out and the magical uprising of destro warlocks hasn't materialized in the weeks since 3.1.2.

So maybe you should stfu.

[Mysmere]

That statement was so full of personal rancor that I do not care to dignify it with comment.

However, since you seem intent on rehashing tired old arguments. I will deign to enter this sideshow of an argument (sic).

The problem at hand is that by and large melee (warrior, dk, paladin, ench shaman, feral druid, rogue) are only effective at close range and ranged classes have their effectiveness greatly reduced by pushback(mage, priest, ele shaman, lock), range issues (hunter) and 'melee dancing'. None of this is new.

The paradigm suggested by this thread is that warlocks must either tank i.e. sit there and take it or use escape mechanisms to allow them to act at range.

If you were to tell a mage or a shadow priest that they were to stand next to a melee class and race from 100-0%, obviously that would be silly. Most melee classes have upwards of 1/3 more health and are basically free to do their rotation while spell caster deals with pushback and interrupts (I'll ignore stuns since melee are affected by that too). Now what does a warlock have to counter that?
-Soul link (5% reduced damage as long as pet is alive)
-10% more stamina; ~2k

I'm not going to discount these as good abilities, and certainly they allow the warlock to take marginally more damage then say a mage or a spriest, but are some of you posters seriously suggesting that a warlock can stand toe to toe with a melee class and win? They won't.

Now in order to swing the pendulum back towards the caster we have escape mechanisms:
-Fear- dispellable, resistable, trinketable, cast time, 3rd cast only 1.5 sec (barely more than base cast time); shares drs, etc
-Teleport- 30 sec cd; can't be used in stun or silence
-Shadowfury or CoE (we'll say)
-Death coil- 2 min cd

Granted that looks like a lot, but...only a paladin doesn't have substantial tools to negate these: Pounce, charge and deathgrip could all stop a warlock from casting fear at the 20 yard range. The warlock could open up with immo, conflag, but the daze would not stop the same abilities.

Now we could discuss various scenarios as to why I'm a complete noob who needs to L2P and all warlocks should stfu, but warlocks have been in the bottom 3 of overall arena representation in the SK 100 since before 3.1 came out and the magical uprising of destro warlocks hasn't materialized in the weeks since 3.1.2.

So maybe you should stfu.

your sig no longer applies to yourself. now thats even more ironic.

anyways, yes you can get bitch owned 1v1 by almost any melee willing to blow cd's. for which i am sad, but this doesn't seem likely to change considering how they scaled the new dmg to hp ratio with wotlk.

considering you are based on a fear mechanic, it seems like you are destined to be OP or UP at any one point, never really balanced.

however you've pretty much always shown up in every 3v3 tourny i can remember, so thers no real point in bitching...

[Exorte]

your sig no longer applies to yourself. now thats even more ironic.

anyways, yes you can get bitch owned 1v1 by almost any melee willing to blow cd's. for which i am sad, but this doesn't seem likely to change considering how they scaled the new dmg to hp ratio with wotlk.

considering you are based on a fear mechanic, it seems like you are destined to be OP or UP at any one point, never really balanced.

however you've pretty much always shown up in every 3v3 tourny i can remember, so thers no real point in bitching...

and because we are not balance around fear now, it is much easier to balacne.
The next thing that will make us weather UP or OP is only have passsive defence but no active.
and no warlock team even win the tourment??
also from the pop % number warlock do need buff.

[Mysmere]

and because we are not balance around fear now, it is much easier to balacne.
The next thing that will make us weather UP or OP is only have passsive defence but no active.
and no warlock team even win the tourment??
also from the pop % number warlock do need buff.

you still have a spammable non instant break by dmg cc (yes yes it does break on dmg i know) so you will be balanced around it.

when they remove fear, then you wont be balanced around it

[Aarong]

In all honesty, we're pretty damn close (once the patch hits) to having everything we need for pvp (with our Fel Hunter out). The only changes I would ask for are as follows.

1. Make Shadowflame's cone effect wider and give it the baseline ability to reduce melee movement speed by 70%.

2. Make The initial portal cast for DC instant (instead of 0.5 sec cast time).

[Rap.S.Callion]

your sig no longer applies to yourself. now thats even more ironic.

anyways, yes you can get bitch owned 1v1 by almost any melee willing to blow cd's. for which i am sad, but this doesn't seem likely to change considering how they scaled the new dmg to hp ratio with wotlk.

considering you are based on a fear mechanic, it seems like you are destined to be OP or UP at any one point, never really balanced.

however you've pretty much always shown up in every 3v3 tourny i can remember, so thers no real point in bitching...

a pala is bitching because a warlock is bitching in a warlock forum. nice.

[Mysmere]

a pala is bitching because a warlock is bitching in a warlock forum. nice.

......no

[Abandon]

So warlocks dont have even 1/3 of the snares that mage does and should therefor not get mobility?
Warlocks have a 30s portal that cant be used as stun and a coil on 2 min cd as reliable getaways. Compare that to a mage who dont have every single melee immune to frost nova (fear), can blink without precast or fixed location and has an IB, an armor that slow attackspeed and movement.

....

Try being a Shadowpriest. It's like being a warlock, without the targeted fear, and without the portal, and without the pets, and without any other CC available.

[Exorte]

Try being a Shadowpriest. It's like being a warlock, without the targeted fear, and without the portal, and without the pets, and without any other CC available.

and Spriest isn't doing well nether. (but they have the more burst than affli lock while have a play style alike affli with DISARM
and heal)
A rememder: the goal now for blizz in PvP is to let every class have atleast one spec playable.
Disc priest??

[sugarfree]

Try being a Shadowpriest. It's like being a warlock, without the targeted fear, and without the portal, and without the pets, and without any other CC available.

Dude we HAVE the same CCs. I got my fear and death coil you got your psychic scream and psychic horror.

But with the others, it's outrageous. I don't know why they changed the beta Psychic Scream (first 3 sec horror) and Dispersion healing, because it was deemed OVERPOWERED. And yet they actually released the crap they call Wotlk with the Opness of the Mut Rogue, Holy Paladin and DK. The irony of this game sometimes. Notice how they can only make it effective with melee classes and all casters are left to rot.

Bottom line is, you don't make a "caster tank". It's like making a fish breathe in the surface. They are balanced around cast times and it wouldn't have mattered if melee can't actually delay your casting or lock you out, or just abuse their outdated casting mechanics. You can't go through a branch of a tree in the ground, but you can through a person. Casters should not tank their damage. This is what makes FROST Mages successful in PVP. Though they still have their problems but at least it's 50-50 against melee, which is up to skill to decide.

TLDR;
Blizzard fails in making casters except frost mages as tanks. They should be wearing plate if that's the case.

Blizzard balances melee against frost mages. So what did the rest of the casters get? Dirt of course.

[TankVX]

casters should have less hp than melee and less defense but at the same time they should be able to kite melee without taking to much dmg.

locks are... i don't know... a big fail

[Nixia]

Try being a Shadowpriest. It's like being a warlock, without the targeted fear, and without the portal, and without the pets, and without any other CC available.

Shadow priest is a specc.
Warlock is a class.
See the difference?

And shadow priest have a "oh shit button", warlocks don't

[iNsAniTy]

I don't know what the problem is with the locks here that have troubles with melee classes. Paladins are easily kited / burned depending on the spec. Warriors are also pretty easily kited, just save the port for when they burn BS. Rogues are kinda iffy I suppose, just because they have so many CD's that can save them like Cloak and Sprint. My only melee class I have problems with is (of course) an unholy DK that knows how to play the class (yes, some DK's DO know how to play). If that's the case, all you have to do is save death coil for when they pop the Anti-Magic Zone, and save the portal for when they death grip. Ferals give me some trouble also, but I'm getting better at countering them. You just have to know what to do and when to do it.

[Desdemona]

each fear casted is reduced untill imunity, only howling, chadow if talented, and dc fear, but all have cd

You realize that you just listed five (I'm counting Fear twice since you're bitching about its diminishing returns) "get the hell away from me so I can blast you" spells, right?

Just because you don't and won't use your full arsenal properly, and just because you insist on gearing up stats that do bigger DPS rather than boosting your survival and longetivity (there was a reason Warlocks were a pain in the ass years ago; they still stacked Stamina then instead of wanking off solely to Spell Damage and whtanot)... well, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

If you want to be able to kill quickly and refuse to use your crowd control spells properly, deal with being a piece of tissue paper as a result.

[Exorte]

You realize that you just listed five (I'm counting Fear twice since you're bitching about its diminishing returns) "get the hell away from me so I can blast you" spells, right?

Just because you don't and won't use your full arsenal properly, and just because you insist on gearing up stats that do bigger DPS rather than boosting your survival and longetivity (there was a reason Warlocks were a pain in the ass years ago; they still stacked Stamina then instead of wanking off solely to Spell Damage and whtanot)... well, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

If you want to be able to kill quickly and refuse to use your crowd control spells properly, deal with being a piece of tissue paper as a result.

In the five 4 share DR. (sudece, fear(he count it two times), howl)
So it is two idiot.
There is a reason that warlock stack stam in the past and they STILL DO now, it is because warlock have so little defence they need stam.
All high rating warlock have resili to 800, spell pen to 130. Then stack stam and finally spell power.
the only defference is we need resili and spell pen now compare to pre-TBC.

[k0102]

right, i see a lot of good posts, and a lot of bad posts..

things like.. peepz get 3 shotted and you whine? is bullsh¡t
things like.. i get fear fear fear howl of terror fear is bullshit

seriously pplz know why...

ok, to sum up my thoughts (if anyone cares) which affects not just locks but LOTS of classes

nowadays, all classes have waaayyy to much escape, ignore, immune abilities...
they got so much more spells since TBC and WOTLK (especially wotlk)

however, the warlock still only has fear and deathcoil (and howl if specced)...
from pets, we have to choose between seduce, stun or silence/interrupt

we virtually gained no survival spell in wotlk.. yes we got portal.. but not usuable while stunned etc makes it less effective as one might think.

The warlock class is fine in dealing damage, managing pets etc, but we just lack survival abilities!

and for all who say.. you have fear, howl, dc.. please note how these ALL are fear effects, which are subject to diminishing returns andi f a class has immune abilities against fear, it basicly is immune to all crowd control options..
mages have silence, frost nova (And stun if specced frost), they have sheep and slow from frostbolt, they have blink, ice barrier shield, magic absobtion (if against 2 magic dps teams)....
nothing wrong with that!!! but please note how that is in all DIFFERENT types of CC, and not just 1 category....

my 2 cents