What's with the really low Rip on PTR?

[Keelie]

I play Disc/Feral, and my partner's Rip was ticking for pretty sad numbers on the PTR. What's the deal? I know it got nerfed, but is there a bug where DoTs are reduced both by the old Resilience and then again by the new?

Obviously, ATM, Ferals have taken a pretty big hit.

That being said, I did some duels with some Rogues in 4/5 Conqueror's with the Deadly Gloves, and he didn't really even dent me on my Priest. Back to the good 'ol days of Season 3, huh?

[androo]

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[arel00]

The Rip nerf was only to the base damage and not the coefficient, so it seems unlikely that it noticed that strong of a nerf. The damage reduction is like... under 1k over the whole duration.

It is probably very related to the Resilience changes. Tell him to Recount a 10mins dps session on Live on a target dummy, then do the same on the PTR. That will give him a better idea of what his personal dps is (it would take 20 hours to have reliable data, but 10mins is at least somewhat informative).

[Deleted]

I'm not sure arel00, I tested my feral druid on PTR aswell, and I lost atleast 1k dps on the dummy :-\

[d9d9]

The Rip nerf was only to the base damage and not the coefficient, so it seems unlikely that it noticed that strong of a nerf. The damage reduction is like... under 1k over the whole duration.

Stop that bullshit already. 2-3% loss in raid env in PVE gear. In PvP loss is much higher because dps stats are significantly lower.

[Myzou]

The Rip nerf was only to the base damage and not the coefficient, so it seems unlikely that it noticed that strong of a nerf. The damage reduction is like... under 1k over the whole duration.

It is probably very related to the Resilience changes. Tell him to Recount a 10mins dps session on Live on a target dummy, then do the same on the PTR. That will give him a better idea of what his personal dps is (it would take 20 hours to have reliable data, but 10mins is at least somewhat informative).

Rip is doing ~1.1k regular, 2.2k crit in full PvE gear they supply with correct gemming, etc.

That's on test dummies. I'm LUCKY if I break 2k on players with resilience.

Rip was SEVERLY nerfed.

[Alski]

Rip is doing ~1.1k regular, 2.2k crit in full PvE gear they supply with correct gemming, etc.

Lets hope its a bug :S

[Deleted]

Stop that bullshit already. 2-3% loss in raid env in PVE gear. In PvP loss is much higher because dps stats are significantly lower.

Rip now causes [ 6/12/18/24/30% of AP + 774/1332/1890/2448/3006 ] damage over 12 sec at max rank. (Down from [ 6/12/18/24/30% of AP + 828/1422/2016/2610/3204 ] damage)

PvP gear = 7100 AP
old rip: 30/100*7100+3204 = 5334
new rip: 30/100*7100+3006 = 5136

5136/5334 = 96.3 => 3.7% DPS loss
gz for being a retard, next time learn doing some basic math and check the whole stuff yourself, THEN come post on these forums

[Deleted]

Registered mainly to post that I've been doing dps tests on dummy on PTR (t7.5/naxx gear mainly, couple of ulduar items) and rip was doing 2k~ normal per tick, 4500~ crit, Recount showing average of 1820/4170 (crit/non crit). My DPS doesn't seem to have gone down that much, it's about 3500-3600 on dummy (and I suck, main spec is Balance :P) even with ptrcraplag.

[Alski]

Well thats good to hear, Myzou had me worried for a minute.

[d9d9]

5136/5334 = 96.3 => 3.7% DPS loss
gz for being a retard, next time learn doing some basic math and check the whole stuff yourself, THEN come post on these forums

Now we see that's not 2-3 already but more close to 4 and not everyone has 7100AP. Also there are no guaranties these formulas are correct. -4% on every ability = tons of burst damage loss. Same as loose a gear tier. So GTFO theorycrafter. I don't like to play with healer because that's terribly boring. Now I will be forced to due to all these changes and looks like it will be 20-30min manawars again which sucks.

[Alski]

Now we see that's not 2-3 already but more close to 4 and not everyone has 7100AP. Also there are no guaranties these formulas are correct. -4% on every ability = tons of burst damage loss. Same as loose a gear tier. So GTFO theorycrafter. I don't like to play with healer because that's terribly boring. Now I will be forced to due to all these changes and looks like it will be 20-30min manawars again which sucks.

That value was used with a rather low AP value. The average Ulduar cat has ~7500ap which in a raid is ~10k and still the difference is only 3.2% when comparing old rip vz new rip. Anyway even if it was 4% on every ability its hardly "tons of burst damage lost"

[Silenthand]

"Finally" springs to mind. Sorry for being an ass but come on, 4k dot crits as a dps spec that reasembles a rogue, yet rogues get half of that even with crits.

[Rurikar]

Now we see that's not 2-3 already but more close to 4 and not everyone has 7100AP. Also there are no guaranties these formulas are correct. -4% on every ability = tons of burst damage loss. Same as loose a gear tier. So GTFO theorycrafter. I don't like to play with healer because that's terribly boring. Now I will be forced to due to all these changes and looks like it will be 20-30min manawars again which sucks.

Do they really have 20-30 min mana war battles in the 1k bracket?

[getefix]

Now we see that's not 2-3 already but more close to 4 and not everyone has 7100AP. Also there are no guaranties these formulas are correct. -4% on every ability = tons of burst damage loss. Same as loose a gear tier. So GTFO theorycrafter. I don't like to play with healer because that's terribly boring. Now I will be forced to due to all these changes and looks like it will be 20-30min manawars again which sucks.

7k AP is not hard to obtain. Not sure what you're talking about? PvP gear? Maybe you would be a little low on AP but even with full Deadly gear you should be able to get 7k.

No guarantees that these formulas are correct? Well the change came from patch notes, and the damage calculations are the same on all database sites.

4% damage on every ability = 4% damage loss... it's not additive. It's not like we use 4-5 abilities so it's 20% damage loss. L2math.

If you have a problem with theorycrafters then go back to the official WoW QQ forums. This isn't a place for retards to whine about how their life is ruined from a 4% damage nerf. If you're going to complain about useful information then you're not welcome.

[Nighty]

"Finally" springs to mind. Sorry for being an ass but come on, 4k dot crits as a dps spec that reasembles a rogue, yet rogues get half of that even with crits.

and don't forget rogues have to have 4pc t8 to get rupture crits, they can't just skill it like ferals

[getefix]

"Finally" springs to mind. Sorry for being an ass but come on, 4k dot crits as a dps spec that reasembles a rogue, yet rogues get half of that even with crits.

if you don't understand a class then don't criticize it.

[Elektrik]

4k dot crits are a little insane, imo. I'm glad they were brought down a little but, but I hope it's not to the extent that the OP and some of the following posters claimed. The people who actually know what they're talking about and supplied math seem to show a reasonable nerf.

Besides, you guys will look awesome with new kitty models!

[Alski]

"Finally" springs to mind. Sorry for being an ass but come on, 4k dot crits as a dps spec that reasembles a rogue, yet rogues get half of that even with crits.

4k white crits are op, ferals barely even do 1/3 of that.

cwutididthere?

[arel00]

Stop that bullshit already. 2-3% loss in raid env in PVE gear. In PvP loss is much higher because dps stats are significantly lower.

Now we see that's not 2-3 already but more close to 4 and not everyone has 7100AP. Also there are no guaranties these formulas are correct. -4% on every ability = tons of burst damage loss. Same as loose a gear tier. So GTFO theorycrafter. I don't like to play with healer because that's terribly boring. Now I will be forced to due to all these changes and looks like it will be 20-30min manawars again which sucks.

Ok, Mr "I know better than you". Let's see.

This is the formula (Ovideozn posted it, but better be repetitive):

Old Rip: 30% AP + 3204 (at 5CPs)
New Rip: 30% AP + 3006 (at 5CPs)

Let's see what happens with 6k AP (which a druid in blues can already have), 8k AP, and 10k AP.
Since you are complaining about PvP (omfg no raid buffz!!!11111oneone) we'll consider a purely self-buffed situation. Let's say that you have 50% crit.

At 6k AP -> old: 6000*0.3+3204 = 5004 damage
Add Mangle and Sabage Roar, 5004*1.3*1.33 = 8652 damage
Factor in the critical strikes, 8652+(8652*0.5*2.2) = 18169 damage
New one: 6000*0.3+3006 = 4806 damage
Mangle+SR, 4806*1,3*1,33 = 8310 damage
Post-crit, 8310+(8310*0.5*2.2) = 17451 damage

Now what is the difference? 18169-17451 = 718 damage. ORLY.
As I said, you lose under 1k damage in the whole Rip duration.

At 8k AP (without redoing all the math, you saw the formulas so just apply them):
Old Rip: 20347
New Rip: 19629
Difference: 718

At 10k AP:
Old Rip: 22527
New Rip: 21806
Difference: 721

In all three cases, the difference, on average, is 120 damage per tick. With fully stacked 24 seconds Rip, the difference is roughly 1500-1600 damage, granted that (and this is unreal in PvP) you have 2xT7, Rip glyph, Shred glyph, SR glyph, and have been able to let go 3 different Shreds on the target after applying Rip. There is, in this worst case, a 4% difference at 6k AP, which goes dramatically down as AP increases.

This is not "theorycrafting", this is the HARSH TRUTH. Theory doesn't fit reality only when you have to account random factors, like movement, debuff durations, boss AoE, crowd control. If you stay under SR and the target stays under Mangle the whole duration, THIS is the difference. All your opinions and anecdotes count ZERO, since WoW is a software program and by its nature it's bound to follow mathematical rules.

If you are noticing a huge drop in damage while in arena, it is very likely the new resilience. If you want to prove me wrong on target dummies where resilience doesn't come into play, then do a damage session of MINIMUM 10 minutes, more likely 30 minutes, and post a Recount of your dps session on Live and on PTR, while showing the specific dps of Rip.
As a wise man said, the plural of anecdote is not data.

Post reliable data, or gtfo.