PTR avoidance rage gain D:

[Drihan]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...d=1&pageNo=1#2

Hopefully this will be put in

[ilialilov]

As a prot warrior i can say it might be a little OP

[Drihan]

Consider your combat log looking like this and Bloodrage is on CD:

Dodge
Dodge
Parry
Dodge
Parry
Parry
You get hit for 14k damage

This happens quite often (at least to me) and this gives me no rage whatsoever to build threat on. This new change might be the key to help prot warriors do better in these situations and not make us a victim of our own success when it comes to getting good gear and having a tremendous amount of avoidance.

[Gawrhshshsh]

I don't think this would be OP at all, considering the costs of your abilities is 2, 12, 12, and 17 for the most part. Unless you are getting 3-4 dodges/blocks/parries every 2-3 GCDs, it allows us to keep some form of a threat gen through the use of instants. No heroic strike spammage but at least you got something going.

I am looking forward to this =D

[Dreadtard]

I would prefer they increase the incoming rage from doing damage or something. That way when we are off-tanking we can actually be useful.

[Kelesti]

I would prefer they increase the incoming rage from doing damage or something. That way when we are off-tanking we can actually be useful.

A little hard to do without massively rebalancing Arms/Fury to not be overpowered.

And they promised this before they took the rage-gain from Blessing of Sanctuary, 'the hell took 'em so long?

[omglazor]

A little hard to do without massively rebalancing Arms/Fury/Prot to not be overpowered.

Fix't. Prot with high rage gains would stomp on people in PvP. I love watching my mace hopelessly tickle Prot Warriors as they stand there and giggle like little school girls.

[Kelesti]

Fix't. Prot with high rage gains would stomp on people in PvP. I love watching my mace hopelessly tickle Prot Warriors as they stand there and giggle like little school girls.

Also true, but I think they stopped caring about how OP non DK tank specs are when they made the new Paladin's Argent Defender (a last stand that procs Guardian Spirit style, giving you the health to resist a killing blow automatically, instantly, without pushing a button, on a 2 minute cooldown).

[Battousai]

Also true, but I think they stopped caring about how OP non DK tank specs are when they made the new Paladin's Argent Defender (a last stand that procs Guardian Spirit style, giving you the health to resist a killing blow automatically, instantly, without pushing a button, on a 2 minute cooldown).

they admitted as much as this is a band aid fix until they could redesign something...it'll get replace soon at some point in time...probably the next exp.

[Lór]

I would prefer they increase the incoming rage from doing damage or something. That way when we are off-tanking we can actually be useful.

The Shield specialization change is fine.

I would make an other change to help Prot warriors to be more useful at offtanking.

Remove the Heroic Strike threat component and redesign the spell. Not usable while Brute Attacks or Raging Heart is active.

Ok now you ask yourself, what Brute Attacks and Raging Heart are.

Brute Attacks
requires shield, defensive stance

Empowers your strikes with brute power adding 600 damage to your attacks. While Brute Attacks is active you cannot generate rage through normal attacks. In addition your normal attacks cause a high amount of threat.

Raging Heart
requires shield, defensive stance

Your raging strikes fill your heart with rage, increasing your rage generation through normal attacks by 100%. In addition every successful Shield Slam allows the use of Revenge once.


Some additional thoughts:
a) These two spells would change a direct connection between Heroic Strike and tanks and DDs. A big problem, when it comes to balance, because for both specs Heroic Strike is a basic ability.
b) These two new spells fix the dependency of protection warriors to HS to do average tank DPS and it fixes also the dependency of getting hit to generate rage.
c) These changes would buff the DPS of OT, due to more rage and due to the Revenge change.
d) These changes would not affect the DPS of DD warriors, because Heroic strike would be the same.
e) Offspectanking is also available to TG warriors, due to the shield requirement.
f) Since Brute Attacks is only useful for tanking and Raging Heart for offtanking, while keeping the choice of using HS for DD warriors, there should not be any balance issue.

=> If you respond, pls stick to the concept and do not focus on the numbers.

[Astray]

Sounds like a good change. And i like it more than increasing furys rage through damage since now rage increases parallel to melee hits/heroic strikes.

The one problem i see is that it is very dependent on the amount of hits/per time, same as protection paladins sanctuary.
One slow hitting enemy -> bad
Groups -> very good

So if your evil raid boss is hitting your for 80% of your life, every 3 seconds, its like parry dodge miss hit aka. 5 rage 5 rage 0 rage FULL RAGE.

Same as protection paladins sanctuary, a greater amount with internal cooldown would have been better.

[Faínt]

I approve of this change. However, Warrior's generate rage from pretty much every source. Perhaps allow some changes to both Warrior's and paladins;

- Protection Warriors (Defensive Stance); Now generate rage when dealing damage (at a slow rate), and more when taking damage, as well as when dodging, blocking, or parrying an attack.

- Protection Paladins (Righteous Fury); Now generate mana when dealing damage (at a slow rate), and more when taking damage, as well as when dodging, blocking or parrying an attack (through Blessing of Sanctuary).

The problem exists for both classes, although i will agree it's more severe for Warriors. It's the same for both in PvP though, however, in PvP, it's much more severe for Protection Paladins, especially against casters. I'd happily leave the Ardent defender change out (after testing it on the PTR in some battlegrounds, it is quite overpowered, even though i PvP a lot) if they fixed our mana regen.

I'm not asking for both classes to be identical, but there's some things where there's only one suitable way to go about it, such as resource mechanics. The avoidance change for Warriors is nice, and some would say essential, but i'd love to see some core issues of the Tankadin addressed as well, rather than giving us some ability that's gonna make us even more OP and FotM in PvP.

With regards to PvE though, if a Warrior does not get hit for the first 10seconds of a fight, then you can pretty much be sure that your DPS will be threat capped and QQ at you, whereas with a paladin you don't have that problem, as you start off with full "Rage" and thus your threat generation at the beginning of a fight will be much more reliable than a warriors. Also note how even if both warriors and paladins avoid stuff for 10seconds, you can easily make this up through the obscene amount of threat you do (8k TPS consistently anyone?) whereas Warriors are sitting at 6k TPS, which in a typical fight is only around 1k more than DPS, and while this may not seem a problem at the minute, come 3.2, when DPS's
TPS starts to scale even higher (Ohaidpswarriors) this will be a serious problem as our threat will only be improved by 500-600 TPS due to more armour from gear and thus more Attack Power from AttT, and in reality more Expertise (after the dodge cap) doesn't really start to show with regards to your threat until around 40Expertise.

TL;DR - As much as paladins may complain about being OOM, in reality they can keep sustained 8k TPS on a boss for 2-3mins, which means even should they go OOM, they will still have a significant thread lead, whereas warriors will be sweating it out hoping that DPS can't reach their threat.

[Deleted]

The Shield specialization change is fine.

I would make an other change to help Prot warriors to be more useful at offtanking.

Remove the Heroic Strike threat component and redesign the spell. Not usable while Brute Attacks or Raging Heart is active.

Ok now you ask yourself, what Brute Attacks and Raging Heart are.

Brute Attacks
requires shield, defensive stance

Empowers your strikes with brute power adding 600 damage to your attacks. While Brute Attacks is active you cannot generate rage through normal attacks. In addition your normal attacks cause a high amount of threat.

Raging Heart
requires shield, defensive stance

Your raging strikes fill your heart with rage, increasing your rage generation through normal attacks by 100%. In addition every successful Shield Slam allows the use of Revenge once.


Some additional thoughts:
a) These two spells would change a direct connection between Heroic Strike and tanks and DDs. A big problem, when it comes to balance, because for both specs Heroic Strike is a basic ability.
b) These two new spells fix the dependency of protection warriors to HS to do average tank DPS and it fixes also the dependency of getting hit to generate rage.
c) These changes would buff the DPS of OT, due to more rage and due to the Revenge change.
d) These changes would not affect the DPS of DD warriors, because Heroic strike would be the same.
e) Offspectanking is also available to TG warriors, due to the shield requirement.
f) Since Brute Attacks is only useful for tanking and Raging Heart for offtanking, while keeping the choice of using HS for DD warriors, there should not be any balance issue.

=> If you respond, pls stick to the concept and do not focus on the numbers.

I wouldn't like the idea of a toggled ability, but that's just my personal opinion, and becuse of it, I'm biased.

Anyway, the shield slam idea is really nice and will help protection warriors offtanking viability, however, it might end up overpowered in PvP, really overpowered. Protection warriors already have quite alot of survability, mobility, and not too shit damage (assuming we got the rage). Now, what this Raging Heart does is it gives us enough rage without being hit, and increases our damage quite alot, again while not being hit.

I don't think something even close to that will happen, simply becuse of PvP reasons, but for PvE it would be just what we need.