Emalon 25 druid tank

[fluffybear]

60 hit is fine for tanking. If you're having trouble surviving, giving up a survival trinket for a threat trinket is a pretty bad move. If the problem was threat, replacing a trinket with a hit trinket is a good option, but it doesn't sound like that is anywhere near the issue.

Agree, but would like to add that misses don't crit, and therefore don't proc Savage Defence. As someone earlier said, you could afford to drop some expertise, so if you can manage it, swap some expertise for some hit. Once you are over 26 expertise, hit gives more chance-to-hit than expertise (per point), as well as reducing the chance for Growl to miss.
I probably wouldn't drop too much stamina tho, can't beat having more HP

[Yohassakura]

Agree, but would like to add that misses don't crit, and therefore don't proc Savage Defence.

/facepalm.

Roll system:
45% chance to crit (typical crit %)
9% chance to miss (without hit)
6.5% chance for a dodged attack (without expertise)
16% (or so) chance to be parried "
23.5% chance to hit (varies on crit & hit & expertise)

Guess what... only crits can crit! :-X and only crit and agi increase your chance to crit, not hit/expertise, thus meaning your statement sounds retarded.

[arel00]

/facepalm.

Roll system:
45% chance to crit (typical crit %)
9% chance to miss (without hit)
6.5% chance for a dodged attack (without expertise)
16% (or so) chance to be parried "
23.5% chance to hit (varies on crit & hit & expertise)

Guess what... only crits can crit! :-X and only crit and agi increase your chance to crit, not hit/expertise, thus meaning your statement sounds retarded.

^This.

BEARS.USE.A.SINGLE.ROLL.SYSTEM.

Stop saying "misses won't crit" because that's bullshit. Misses go at the expense of regular hits for Bears.

[VirtuousX]

You don't need Master Shapeshifter. That's five talent points you could put into Feral Aggression. An improved Demo Roar reduces received melee damage by 15%. Use Demo Roar!
You don't need Improved Mangle. Put those three points into Infected Wounds. Infected Wounds significantly reduces the attack frequency of the enemy.

Just to get one thing sorted..

Putting talent points into Feral Aggression doesn't lower the damage taken by 15%. It buffs the effect of Demoralizing Roar by 40%.

Also I don't see the point taking Infected Wounds. Not worth it

Here is my tanking build, and it works http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxGG...AkbAczb:zMncMm

[rohendar]

That spec sucks monkey balls. Infected Wounds is MANDATORY for any tank worth 5cents. It's 20% attack speed reduction, which means 20% slower dmg incoming. And Feral Agression might not be 15% dmg reduction, it's still a full 4% melee dmg reduction. It's not worthless either.

I'll tell you what's worthless. Speccing 3 points into Natural Shapeshifter just to get to Master Shapeshifter. Cost reduction on shifts? as a tank? GG, now that's worthless. Not to mention Master Shapeshifter is worthless as well. What are you going to do with 4% more dmg done? DPS? you're a freakin tank, why don't you spec tank talents?

Here's a decent tank spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZEGG...zVkbA0z:zMncMm

[Yohassakura]

That spec sucks monkey balls. Infected Wounds is MANDATORY for any tank worth 5cents. It's 20% attack speed reduction, which means 20% slower dmg incoming. And Feral Agression might not be 15% dmg reduction, it's still a full 4% melee dmg reduction. It's not worthless either.

I'll tell you what's worthless. Speccing 3 points into Natural Shapeshifter just to get to Master Shapeshifter. Cost reduction on shifts? as a tank? GG, now that's worthless. Not to mention Master Shapeshifter is worthless as well. What are you going to do with 4% more dmg done? DPS? you're a freakin tank, why don't you spec tank talents?

Here's a decent tank spec: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZEGG...zVkbA0z:zMncMm

3 or more points spent in feral aggression is a waste of talent points, just because of the amount of AP that the bosses have. You might as well stick 2 in FA and 3 in imp mangle and be happy

[Jon]

Just to get one thing sorted..

Putting talent points into Feral Aggression doesn't lower the damage taken by 15%. It buffs the effect of Demoralizing Roar by 40%.

Also I don't see the point taking Infected Wounds. Not worth it

Here is my tanking build, and it works http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxGG...AkbAczb:zMncMm

Hello, bad bear.

[getefix]

Just to get one thing sorted..

Putting talent points into Feral Aggression doesn't lower the damage taken by 15%. It buffs the effect of Demoralizing Roar by 40%.

Also I don't see the point taking Infected Wounds. Not worth it

Here is my tanking build, and it works http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#0ZxGG...AkbAczb:zMncMm

Most bosses have 2 second swing timers. With Infected Wounds it becomes a 2.4 second swing timer. It's a straight up 20% reduction in damage. You'd be better off skipping Protector of the Pack rather than Infected Wounds, and you definitely shouldn't skip either.

"But I have players in my raid that apply the debuff for me"
How many people are attacking Freya in first phase? If the answer is more than one then you probably haven't killed her yet.

3 or more points spent in feral aggression is a waste of talent points, just because of the amount of AP that the bosses have. You might as well stick 2 in FA and 3 in imp mangle and be happy

Increasing Demoralizing Roar's effect is actually good as well. Mob dps is calculated like this:

(AP/14 + Base_DPS) * Multiplier

The higher the value of M, the better the talent is. The further you progress in Ulduar, the harder you get hit, and therefore the better the 5 points become. It's not something that's 100% needed on every boss fight because it only lasts 30 seconds and threat is usually more important, but on fights like Vezax, Hodir or Thorim it's definitely helpful.

There's a nice post on Tankspot about Boss AP and the usefulness of Demoralizing Roar and Demoralizing Shout. At the end they conclude that it's close to a 1% damage reduction per point into improving the effect
http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f14/4...0-boss-ap.html

Having a threat build as your regular tanking build doesn't mean you're an awesome threat tank, it just means that you're not as useful for hard hitting bosses.

[LrdPhoenix]

^This.

BEARS.USE.A.SINGLE.ROLL.SYSTEM.

Stop saying "misses won't crit" because that's bullshit. Misses go at the expense of regular hits for Bears.

Are there any classes/abilities that don't use this? I've always been under the impression that it pretty much all worked like a single dice roll with something like 10000 sides to account for decimal chances with the number ranges for each possibility shifting based on stats.

[Mr.X]

Small question on Infected wounds,
its a speed and attack speed reduction debuff, wouldn't most bosses be immune to it and therefor only make it useful for off tanks?

or does it only effects normal bosses ie in naxx and uldaur

[SoulPoetry]

Small question on Infected wounds,
its a speed and attack speed reduction debuff, wouldn't most bosses be immune to it and therefor only make it useful for off tanks?

or does it only effects normal bosses ie in naxx and uldaur

the attack speed certainly affects bosses as paladin tanks get a similar effect, as well as that, it also counts towards Torment of the Weak even though the bosses won't get movement speed reduced, so you get happy Arcane/Fireball mages.

------

if you're dying too easily (from the nova) just run from it. the only tank i even contemplate saying in there is my DK, and that's only if i'm running low on RP and have AMS ready. it's easily avoidable damage. if you are running from nova, i apologize but i've seen many a tank say in before blaming healers. if you're just dying from melee there's not a lot you can do apart from BS, FG or SI.

[Sunshine]

3 or more points spent in feral aggression is a waste of talent points, just because of the amount of AP that the bosses have. You might as well stick 2 in FA and 3 in imp mangle and be happy

This was true in BC, but it was proven false in Wrath.  Every point in FA has an effect towards damage reduction (as with warrior demo shout, etc).

*edit* Dug up the tankspot post.

[Yohassakura]

This was true in BC, but it was proven false in Wrath. Every point in FA has an effect towards damage reduction (as with warrior demo shout, etc).

*edit* Dug up the tankspot post.

Interesting read, however i believe in most cases that imp demo roar/shout won't be that useful - sure obviously it does help, reducing damage by 1k~ on average from 0/5 to 5/5 however in most cases i'd assume that a tank has at least one pally and maybe another big-heal healer on them it'll most likely just create more OH. However, if there are faster casting healers, then it can help the effectiveness of imp demo roar by a larger margin.

IE, i think most people would prefer some threat talents rather than some situational EH (not every boss melees neither).

[Sunshine]

IE, i think most people would prefer some threat talents rather than some situational EH (not every boss melees neither).

Oh, I agree completely, in the general case. I'm just clearing up the misconception that the extra points are totally useless (as they were in BC, because bosses' AP was *completely* negated by 2/5). If you're trying to do some difficult fights with severe melee damage (hard mode council, vezax, etc), the difference may be worthwhile.

[lilbandit]

those stats are fine, your healers just sucked tbh.

ofc if you get low, use cooldowns. may be advisable to hit barkskin for the nova (i think you can only hit 1/2 of them), but it helps.

[fluffybear]

/facepalm.

Roll system:
45% chance to crit (typical crit %)
9% chance to miss (without hit)
6.5% chance for a dodged attack (without expertise)
16% (or so) chance to be parried "
23.5% chance to hit (varies on crit & hit & expertise)

Guess what... only crits can crit! :-X and only crit and agi increase your chance to crit, not hit/expertise, thus meaning your statement sounds retarded.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table

fixed 24% chance of glancing blows against bosses

So your table above should look like
9% miss
6.5% dodge
(possibly 6.5% block, depends)
16% parry
24% glancing

Thats 62%. Your '45% crit' fills up the remaining 38% of the table, and 7% crit is wasted as these hits have been missed, blocked, dodged, parried or glancing.

edit: from further reading, yellow hits (mangle, swipe etc) cannot be glancing hits.

[Luaavin]

http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_tableSo your table above should look like
9% miss
6.5% dodge
(possibly 6.5% block, depends)
16% parry
24% glancing

Thats 62%. Your '45% crit' fills up the remaining 38% of the table, and 7% crit is wasted as these hits have been missed, blocked, dodged, parried or glancing.

edit: from further reading, yellow hits (mangle, swipe etc) cannot be glancing hits.

Maul isn't subject to glancing too, and usually when tanking a boss your white hits should be near zero, because you should have enough rage rage from crits & boss hits, and with these amounts of rage you should use Maul every auto-hit

[ElAmigo]

If you don't trust your healers, you can always run away from the nova too. Then simply charge back in.

yup yup works with my warrior, most of the time emalon stays in his position like i never moved.

[wee]

your gear and spec is fine for that fight. A bear in nearly any gear can tank him without probs and soak up the nova without moving. It could jsut be the nova hitting u at the same time as a white hit. But just pop barkskin then

[fluffybear]

Maul isn't subject to glancing too, and usually when tanking a boss your white hits should be near zero, because you should have enough rage rage from crits & boss hits, and with these amounts of rage you should use Maul every auto-hit

Granted, and I will concede this point. But above calcs clarify my statement of "misses can't crit" - I am well aware of the single-roll system. Perhaps I could have worded myself better