Garrosh: "Grr look at me im angry"

[Eversor]

Humans have done bad things. Orcs have done bad things. Dwarves have done bad things. Trolls have done bad things. Elves have done bad things. Undead have done bad things.

Imagine what would happen if everyone kept blaming everyone for what they did? Where would it lead? Yeah, they would be right to blame others for their crimes, but where would that lead? Destruction, degeneration and death. That's where. Sometimes you have to swallow your damn pride and act for the greater good. If you refuse, stay proud and rather die because you won't admit your own mistakes and forgive others theirs... the better for those, who benefit from this. Chaos is the perfect feeding ground to cosmic horrors. And they keep stirring it, because it is so damn easy. Mortals and their pride, one of their greatest flaws. So busy with bickering within, ignorant to what happens outside. Pawns to forces unseen. When they will realise what had happened, it will already be too late.

That's how it goes. Yes, humans have suffered alot from orcs. But I'll be damned if I will ever admit that humans have no crimes of their own. But it is easier to spot a splinter in your opponent's eye than a log in yours, isn't it? It is easier to have a scapegoat. This argue isn't anything new. It went on from the very beginning of Wrath... even before it. And it always goes the same way, always cycles around, always turns into a pissing contest. Shouldn't both sides just come to each other, admit their flaws and just work together?

Guess not. Bickering is the easy way out. Pride and standing to your own flawed views is the easy view out. Ignorance is the easy way out. I am just tired with Alliance apologists. To try and prove them wrong, I need to act like a Horde apologist, and I hate that. I also hate being forced to make quote trains. Bottom line, both sides have their faults, but both sides also have redeeming qualities. I'll just hope the redeeming qualities in both will work together eventually. Or everyone will get eaten by Old Gods, then flattened by Sargeras. It is so easy to manipulate with stupid people, and I bet those guys are having a blast.

[Benitora]

I found a rather good post, or rather Articale regarding Varian on the site called Lorecrafted:

Varian Wrynn

With the Secrets of Ulduar cinematic intro live, we further see the dissolution of the fragile peace between the Horde and the Alliance. Some folks lay this blame squarely on Varian Wrynn, but I have to disagree with that assessment. Varian’s actions are actually more understandable for his character than people think at first.

Let’s take a look, shall we?

Varian was the prince of Stormwind under his father’s, King Llane Wrynn’s, rule. Llane was king during the events of the First War (Warcraft I). As events go, Llane was befriended by Garona Halforcen, an orc assassin who gained his trust despite the odds.

Trust.

Even Garona herself will recall Llane as her friend, and if her emotions about the subject are any indication, he was important to her.

Then she killed him so that the Old Horde could raze the city. Varian saw his father betrayed. That Garona was under magical control and COMPELLED to assassinate her friend against her will is not fully revealed to anyone but us, the players / readers, so all little Varian knows is that an orc betrayed his father’s trust.

Trust.

Varian, as a fatherless child, was then scooped up by Anduin Lothar and taken across the sea to Lordaeron to escape the onslaught of the Horde. It was not too long before they were followed, however, and Varian once again saw the Horde invade yet ANOTHER land. And while the young prince was harbored by King Terenas, he saw his only remaining father figure, Anduin Lothar, killed by none other than Orgrim Doomhammer himself. His second father was also killed by an orc.

Granted, at this time it was the “in thing” to hate the Horde, since they were, for all intents and purposes, evil (still under demonic control, very rampagey and angry). But seeing your two homes and your two fathers destroyed and slaughtered by orcs does not help you develop a sense of peace towards the race. It lays the foundation for hatred.

Fast forward to the events current in the monthly World of Warcraft comic. These next events take place after his split / merge, after Onyxia’s death, but before Wrath of the Lich King and the Wrathgate. Neither Stormwind nor Orgrimmar had been attacked by Arthas at this point.

Jaina Proudmoore convinces a reluctant but willing Varian to meet with Thrall, Garrosh, and Rehgar Earthfury for peace talks. Even Varian’s son, Anduin Wrynn (yes, named after Varian’s “second” father), wants to honor the orc presence.

What happens?

A group made up of undead, trolls, and orcs drop in and try to kill Varian. And who’s with this band of miscreants?

Garona Halforcen. Again.

In Varian’s eyes, in a time before the revelation of the Wrathgate and a time when Arthas hadn’t yet unleashed his revised plague, Varian believes Thrall ordered Garona’s attack. Granted, he didn’t happen to notice that these assassins were part of the Twilight’s Hammer cult, nor that they were there to kill BOTH Varian and Thrall. Those little details gets lost in the fracas.

And then there’s Garrosh, the loudmouth, shouting the exact same thing that Varian’s shouting but at the opposite faction. “It’s the HUMANS! They have betrayed us!”

So you can definitely see that Varian’s beliefs are justified. To him, “the Horde” is a warmongering group that is difficult to control. Their savage nature goes beyond that which a singular being, such as Thrall, can influence. Too many elements within are willing to fall back to the old ways and sunder any hope of real peace. The events of the Wrathgate were absolute proof of this to Stormwind’s current king, and losing Fordragon meant that young Anduin lost one of HIS father-figures. This, of course, parallel’s Varian’s own loss.

And then we have the Broken Front, the nail in the coffin between Horde and Alliance relations. It matters not that the zealots who caused the Broken Front were looked down upon by all, even the Horde. All that matters is that “the Horde” attacked soldiers dishonorably, from behind, to prevent the Alliance from gaining “glory.” “The Horde” prevented an Alliance victory into Icecrown, against this common enemy of which everyone speaks. To Varian, “The Horde” broke the trust.

Trust.

Varian’s not going against the Horde for spite. He’s going against them because he believes that they cannot be trusted as allies in this fight. This was proven in two VERY large events in Northrend (the Wrathgate and the Broken Front). It’s not that he doesn’t want a unified front, it’s that he doesn’t BELIEVE that a unified front can be achieved when Thrall can’t even control his own people.

You see, the Horde has a unique weakness when compared to the Alliance. The Horde has but a singular strong leader: Thrall. Therefore, anything that the Horde does wrong is laid at Thrall’s feet, even if he fought against said wrongdoing. The poor guy takes the blame for the actions of “his people.”

The Alliance has the advantage here, as there is no singular Alliance leader. The Alliance is a political entity all its own, one that can operate without a figurehead. And since the Alliance isn’t united under one singular leader or entity, it’s much easier to compartmentalize wrongdoing by attributing it to [Rogue Faction X].

As to Thrall’s ability to see past those hate-mongering humans who raised him? Remember that Thrall has had multiple examples of humans trying to help orcs. This started with Taretha Foxton, the girl who helped him escape. This was furthered by Tirion Fordring, who risked not only his life but also his livelihood to save Eitrigg from an unjust death. And then there was Jaina Proudmoore, the woman who stood against her own father to prevent further war against Thrall’s new Horde. Many things in Thrall’s life worked towards showing him that his enemy wasn’t truly an enemy.

What proof has Varian had that the orcs are honorable? Who has shown him that they’re capable of doing good? Who’s been there to break the belief that’s been building in Varian’s mind since he was a child? All Varian knows is hearsay from people like Jaina and Tirion. And Bolvar Fordragon? His voice was silenced.

What Horde heroes are out there to prove to Varian that he’s in the wrong? Certainly not Thrall, who Varian sees as someone losing control of his own people. And DEFINITELY not Garrosh, who’s as bloodthirsty as Varian…

From this point of view, the Varian vs. the Horde storyline is much more understandable. It doesn’t make Varian’s actions RIGHT, but it does make them far more plausible than people give credit.

I find this to be very accurate regarding Varian's position agains't the horde.

[luccadeo]

I don't know what comic you're reading. Of course Rhaegar did chase them. He actually said that they had earned their freedom but "That does not mean I have to make it easy for them"

Did you miss the part where Varian said he preferred being a gladiator to being a king? Did you miss the part where he and Rhaegar had a nice polite conversation in Theramore over tea and crumpets about how he was grateful that he met Broll and Valeera?

Did you miss the part where Varian and Rhaegar actually like each-other and don't bear each-other any ill-will?

Did you miss the part where Varian actually tried to justify the orcs being in Ashenvale? After the whole escape from the arena? And was still willing to meet with Thrall?

Guess what. It isn't the arenas that makes Varian mistrust the Horde.

Varian-haters always try to make it about the arenas. It isn't the arenas, its Wrathgate, it's the Broken Front, it's the human experimentation in Undercity.

It's the way the Horde has always behaved in Varian's experience.

Thrall has had both positive and negative experieces with the Alliance. Varian has only had negative experiences with the Horde.

Thrall trusted Taraetha and she helped him escape. Llane trusted Garona and she killed him.

If Taraetha or Jaina had befriended Thrall and then then cut out Durotar's heart in front of him, then you could say that Thrall and Varian had similar experiences with each other's factions.

If humans had invaded the orcs home world and commited genocide, then you could say that Thrall and Varian had similar experiences with each other's factions.

If the Alliance sacked Orgrimmar and burned it to the ground, then you could say that Thrall and Varian had similar experiences with each other's factions.

Unless something like that happens, Thrall's experience with humans has been much better that Varian's experience with orcs.

And if you're going to argue from the comic then read it - Rhaegar did send riders to chase Broll and Varian.

Edited to Add:

I don't get why people keep saying that Thrall should'nt bring Garrosh to the VC or the AT etc. Garrosh is the rightfull chief of the Warsong Clan and the leader of the Warsong Offensive. As such he is the Horde's military leader in Northrend. He has every right to be present at military meeting with Rhonin or Tirion.

And how the hell else is he going to learn? Thrall is obviously trying to groom Garrosh as his successer. How is he going to learn diplomacy if not from diplomatic meetings?

I've even heard people criticising Thrall for not stopping Garrosh from attacking Varian in the Violet Citadel. What was he supposed to do? Hit him with the Doomhammer? Use shaman magic on him? You don't show internal tension in front of outsiders. Thrall knows that.

I wish people would stop criticising him about the way he handles Garrosh.

That about sums it up.

[Grimbold]

where can i check these comics ppl keep mentioning?

I found one at the WoW site, ending with Varian travelling on a zeppelin to Kalimdor to kill Onyxia. Is this the most recent one ?

[Highlord Hanibuhl]

Garrosh is a stuck-up asshole because every good story needs one!

[Grimbold]

bump :<

[Callsign Grunge]

anub'arak is going to eat him.

[Pwnshop]

I hope he dosent die, thralls sweet, but garrosh is bringing back the war, something thrall tried to avoid but always failed.

[Rend Blackhand]

I hope Garrosh doesn't die. Hear me out here before calling me a troll or what have you, What would be the point in building Garrosh up from his character back in early TBC just to have him cast aside and swept away? To give Thrall another awesome moment? Thrall has enough awesome moments as is. To maybe give Saurfang an awesome moment? Again, pointless. Vol'jin an awesome moment? Vol'jin is fairly awesome and with taking back the echo isles that will do us for troll awesome.

You see, if Garrosh was made just to be killed in cataclysm then everything regarding him goes to moot, and the Hellscream legacy will NEVER go to moot.