MS Debuff solves Everything

[Beaavis]

I am a mage and I think the ms effect is pretty dumb and not very thought out but its not some super OP thing thats gonna make us faceroll to being on 80% of 2v2 teams or something like that.

My frostbolt in 3.1 CRITS for 8k on a 0 resilience target and thats in a few more pve pieces than pvp pieces. On say a priest with 1k resilience that 8k becomes 6k and that 6k becomes 5k because im in pvp gear now, AND guess what they just made resilience more powerful, helps everyone you say? Partially yes, but since almost all of frost's burst comes from crits(ie shatter combos) we double dip in the resilience buffage allowing a small but still there nerf to our dmg compared to some other classes.

Tell me how I can kill an arms warrior with 30k hp and 900 resilience in 2 global cooldowns....

Also all these ppl comparing bubble to iceblock, iceblock is a shitty outdated spell compared to bubble. Not only can we not move or attack but we cant heal ourselves like pallys can, pretty much resetting the match. The only thing iceblock is used for now is either to get some focus fire off of you for 3 secs then clicking it off or clearing a stupid amount of debuffs. Its not even an OH SHIT button since warriors and priests can get rid of it, before they dispel you might get a heal or two off coupled with the natural 3k+ more hp you have than us allowing you to live till a healer can get ya.

P.S.-Ive played on the ptr as a pally and its so easy to get rid of that ms effect that lasts 10 secs or get out of a frostnova(cleanse cleanse cleanse cleanse), ive never played a pally before and I can faceroll 90% of the ppl I face and yes they are newbs to the class they may have never played but atleast that class takes skill to somewhat resemble a challenge, OMG I HAVE TO TIME 3 CDS TO WIN A MATCH AHHHHH

I do about low to mid 5k frostbolts crits on average with 1700~ spell damage. Keep in mind these are about 2.2 cast times with my haste setup(sacrificing big time for that mid 500~ haste fyi). Melee, and especially Rets can do this damage instantly and with more regularity. Thats whats so fucked up about the balance of this game currently. Rets are still completely retarded with their burst and ease of catchup. Imo they are still the dumbest class in the game in need of major nerfs to their burst. QQ about petty blizz nerfs, Rets are still as faceroll a gamer can play in WoW's PvP as things are. Every time i die to a Ret i think "jesus christ all this jackass did was freedom and wack me dead in 2-3 globals", its seriously wack a mole play. I mean when i lose to other classes i at least see some semblance of 'play' to what they do.

That said 20% is barely a MS. I'd prefer it on Cone of Cold ONLY as a 35% MS and only for its duration. Giving it to all frost spells is such a lame idea with no risk vs reward.

Mages are like the opposite of most Pally's. I swear at least we have a segment of our class that pushes for skilled play and actually got ourselves nerfed when ArcBarrage was first put in. A lot of us argued for our own nerfs. Its like every Pally i see just wants and condones ease of faceroll play, and when you tell them they should have to use more abilities than HoF, like cleanse, they QQ like HoF'ing themself and hitting 3 buttons is fine :

[omglazor]

That said 20% is barely a MS. I'd prefer it on Cone of Cold ONLY as a 35% MS and only for its duration. Giving it to all frost spells is such a lame idea with no risk vs reward.

I fully agree with that. Playing a warrior, I always have to consider who to put MS on next and where to switch targets to. I am completely not against mages getting a single-target MS as I rarely see them outside of PMR where the Rogue brings the ever-needed debuff, so this would actually create more variety across all brackets and reduce the issue with mages pretty much being pigeon-holed into PMR if they want to get Glad or any sort of "high" rating. A multi-target no-brainer 20% healing reduction is just asinine and accomplishes very little, while adding 0 skill threshold to Frost mages, which I think should be the defining factor of arenas.

(Btw, I still hate your lot! Friggin frost mages > ;D)

[Accuser]

Its like every Pally i see just wants and condones ease of faceroll play, and when you tell them they should have to use more abilities than HoF, like cleanse, they QQ like HoF'ing themself and hitting 3 buttons is fine :

Every pally I know (including myself) would trade faceroll burst damage for more PvP utility in an instant. Ret is very powerful in the low brackets (with low resil) and in well coordinated teams that compensate for Ret's shortfalls... but as a Ret there are VERY FEW TOOLS AT YOUR DISPOSAL. That means, if you pop freedom and wings, then get chain-sheeped till freedom is over you're probably dead. No gap closer (just freedom/JoJ as a 'distance maintainer') = dead pally.

[Prentice]

Mages are like the opposite of most Pally's. I swear at least we have a segment of our class that pushes for skilled play and actually got ourselves nerfed when ArcBarrage was first put in. A lot of us argued for our own nerfs. Its like every Pally i see just wants and condones ease of faceroll play, and when you tell them they should have to use more abilities than HoF, like cleanse, they QQ like HoF'ing themself and hitting 3 buttons is fine :

You clearly know so much about gameplay. Why the hell would a pally cleanse off the debuffs from a mage?? At any given time, a pally will have 5 or more debuffs from a mage. Cleanse eats throough our microscopic mana pool and all you have to do is spam lance to keep adding to the stack. Add Cone of Cold and Frost Nova and you'd clearly see that the cleanse spam that you desire is utterly idiotic.

Hey!! I want to run around in circles chasing you without using any offensive abilities while i run myself OOM and lose cuz you want me to use Cleanse. Get a life and try to understand that every class has their own annoying abilities. Pallys and mages do what they have to do. 99% of the time using Freedom when you are finally rooted is a much better choice than fighting to cleanse off the stack against a mage.

[Beaavis]

You clearly know so much about gameplay. Why the hell would a pally cleanse off the debuffs from a mage?? At any given time, a pally will have 5 or more debuffs from a mage. Cleanse eats throough our microscopic mana pool and all you have to do is spam lance to keep adding to the stack. Add Cone of Cold and Frost Nova and you'd clearly see that the cleanse spam that you desire is utterly idiotic.

Hey!! I want to run around in circles chasing you without using any offensive abilities while i run myself OOM and lose cuz you want me to use Cleanse. Get a life and try to understand that every class has their own annoying abilities. Pallys and mages do what they have to do. 99% of the time using Freedom when you are finally rooted is a much better choice than fighting to cleanse off the stack against a mage.

lol this is what i'm talking about. Welcome to what every other class has to do to micro-manage their movement or counter the other class. You're basically the only class that has a 'set it and forget it' movement buff that allows full movement, and the funniest thing about your reply is its exactly what a Mage has to go through to get freedom off of you and do more than 600 damage nukes.

Whats even more hilarious is cleanse costs you practically nothing compared to spellsteal for a Mage. Nor does it make or break you like a frost Mage having to dispel freedom or die.

[buckybadger]

Mages do not need MS to survive, however if they are going to be viable in comps without rogues they needed a lot of help. This was a good change, aside from the fact that its applied in your normal dps rotation with no effort.

It should be something like spriests where there is a CD, or its more difficult to get applied. I think the main issue is that the caster/melee imbalance is getting old, its been aronud for pretty much 4-5 seasons and it sucks that melee always dominates. Is it possible this will make mages OP, yea maybe but probably not. They had to try someething to stop melee domination (for the record i think boomkins aff and ele shamans should get the same treatment as spriests and mages). All in all i think it was something that needed to be tried.

The other thing is people refer to mages as a high surv. class. I think thats wrong, because really they are just comparing mage survivability to other casters, which also sucks. Mages are good at survival, but in 3v3 its very easy to get by any number of setups as a mage. Mage surv is good not amazing (other casters surv is bad in general and needs to be brought up)

[Npshaman]

Hmm Surly this will make RMP even more overpowered? Priest can give an ms debuff ( or is it talented?) Mage can gve and ms debuff, and yeh you guessed it, the rogue has a perma ms debuff ... GG?

[Garrim]

Pallies are pretty noob. I have a pally and decided it was too n00b and rolled a hunter. Pallies have to push like 5 buttons (tops) to win so stop QQ. Mages are very hard to kill but they require more skill. I don't think mages needed this though, spriest did. If you wanna cry about your class sucking, play a hunter or warlock, almost no representation. Along with shadow priest, oh man I never see shadow priest in arena. And you need to learn something about retadins, they are a DEFENSIVE SUPPORT CLASS. That means you get someone like I dunno a warrior, who has MS, he's the main dmg dealer, you help him burst when the time is right for such things, but other then that you SUPPORT HIM. Or a DK or a rogue or a mage. However retadins are a DEFENSIVE SUPPORT class, and if you go ret you are a DEFENSIVE SUPPORT CLASS that can do burst on demand. And if retadin doesn't work out for you spec to holy, they do have good represenation in arena. Warlocks and Hunters have no other specs to switch to, no other roll we can try to preform. It's DPS or GTFO of arena. Even more disappointing to hunters compared to locks is locks have a better pet then any hunter. So did mages need this, no but it's not going to be game breaking. Did Spriest need this, kinda but they need way more fixes then this to get anywhere. So stop QQ retadins that mages are OP.

[Exorte]

Hmm Surly this will make RMP even more overpowered? Priest can give an ms debuff ( or is it talented?) Mage can gve and ms debuff, and yeh you guessed it, the rogue has a perma ms debuff ... GG?

Ms never stack.
and spreist need to talent it.

[Ghoti Sticks]

Hey!! I want to run around in circles chasing you without using any offensive abilities while i run myself OOM and lose cuz you want me to use Cleanse. Get a life and try to understand that every class has their own annoying abilities. Pallys and mages do what they have to do. 99% of the time using Freedom when you are finally rooted is a much better choice than fighting to cleanse off the stack against a mage.

While I agree that if you are rooted HoF is always a better go-to when available, I wouldn't discount the power and utility of Cleanse. I don't play as ret so everything I have to contribute on the matter is based on my experiences on my holy pally, but Cleanse is one of the most powerful abilities in my spellbook. It is the ability I always miss the most when on my other toons. My shammy has the comparable Cleanse Spirit talent, but I would prefer the ability to remove a magical debuff over a curse any day. Cleanse is boss.

With that being said, I find ret to be among the least threatening of all the dps classes I encounter on a frequent basis. After surviving wings, things become pretty tame with very predictable periods of burst damage. Admittedly, I typically pvp on my healers.

[Sharein]

im sick of this re-occuring theme blizzard has been using to attempt to fix certain classes in arena. The MS debuff has now been given to mages and spriest, when is this stupid move gonna stop being tossed around, next thing you know DK's and pally's will have it. Why dont we just enter the game with a 50% healing debuff up at all times, seriously this is beyond a joke

Healers are generally too strong, this makes MS nearly mandatory. :|

[Sharein]

Hmm Surly this will make RMP even more overpowered? Priest can give an ms debuff ( or is it talented?) Mage can gve and ms debuff, and yeh you guessed it, the rogue has a perma ms debuff ... GG?

Only the rogue MS debuff will be working then, as they don't stack and probably just overwrite eachother.

[Deleted]

See how pvp is becoming completly ludicious? What they should do is completly redesign all classes with simplicity and role kind of like it was in vanilla. Less spells, less talents. Make. Things. Simpler. Next expansion is a good place to do it.

Here is an example:

Mages could have like 10 spells only. Depending on glyphs and talents they would have different effects such as instead of frostnova make it cone of cold with same dmg and always freeze or a fireball with a talent it becomes a pyroblast. This will offer alot of synergy options in arenas and BGs