demonology PTR OPness?

[Deleted]

What about duels or any 1vs1 situations? Will demo lock be OP as it was in vanilla wow? Who cares about weakness in arena if you can destroy people 1vs1, whic offers much more satisfaction 8).

[Gerian]

Damage reduction effect are multiplicative.


With a Felguard/MoltenSkin build (3.2):
-------------------------------------------------

Damage reduction = 1 - ((1-glyped SL)*(1-Molten Skin)*(1-Resilience)*(1-Felguard MD)

Damage reduction = 1 - (0,75*0,94*0,9*0,95) = 0,397225 (far from the OP 55% damage reduction)


With a Felguard/MoltenSkin build (3.1):
-------------------------------------------------

Damage reduction = 1 - ((1-glyped SL)*(1-Molten Skin)*(1-Felguard MD)

Damage reduction = 1 - (0,75*0,94*0,95) = 0,33025



850 Resilience give +- 6% damage reduction in 3.2

Was going to post something to these affects.

[Woony]

What about duels or any 1vs1 situations? Will demo lock be OP as it was in vanilla wow? Who cares about weakness in arena if you can destroy people 1vs1, whic offers much more satisfaction 8).

I imagine something like this http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZ0GMhkAdihsxzAoVf0q0h as a very sucessfull Duel specc. Meta and Searing Pain spam. Pop Meta and Demonic Emp. Pop Aura dot up and spam Searin Pain. I will test it later and give some feedback.

[Dizzygnome]

Destro locks on the other hand are op as hell right now. 10k conflag crits on someone with 800 resil...

In BIS PVE gear, with all trinkets and talents procced, sure. But thats the same as saying "omg feral druid is op I got crit for 16k by Ferocious Bite, nerf!" (which actually happened to me once by the way, I was in PVE gear ofc). You're leaving out 1 person's gear to make a rediculous statement.

[Woony]

In BIS PVE gear, with all trinkets and talents procced, sure. But thats the same as saying "omg feral druid is op I got crit for 16k by Ferocious Bite, nerf!" (which actually happened to me once by the way, I was in PVE gear ofc). You're leaving out 1 person's gear to make a rediculous statement.

Well actually, as Warlock you get very high amounts of Spellpower in PvP Gear, but you obviosly lack Crit and Haste, buts not that important in PvP. And with PvP Gear and 2pc t8,5 i say, yes you can get that high crits.
But Destro is still no facerol, because its very hard to set up burst against all those Cleave teams. But the burst is pretty lulz.

[gherkin]

Damage reduction effect are multiplicative.


With a Felguard/MoltenSkin build (3.2):
-------------------------------------------------

Damage reduction = 1 - ((1-glyped SL)*(1-Molten Skin)*(1-Resilience)*(1-Felguard MD)

Damage reduction = 1 - (0,75*0,94*0,9*0,95) = 0,397225 (far from the OP 55% damage reduction)


With a Felguard/MoltenSkin build (3.1):
-------------------------------------------------

Damage reduction = 1 - ((1-glyped SL)*(1-Molten Skin)*(1-Felguard MD)

Damage reduction = 1 - (0,75*0,94*0,95) = 0,33025



850 Resilience give +- 6% damage reduction in 3.2

Lets do it your way, because you forgot to factor in armor (which gave me my 52% in the first place)

With resilience
DR = 1 - (.75 SL * .94 Molten Skin * .95 MD * .8 Armor * .9 Resil) = 51.778
The exact same number you get if you do it my way.

1 - 25% - 6% - 5% - 20% - 10% = 1 - (.75 * .94 * .95 * .8 * .9)
I'm sorry my way doesn't look as pretty.

[gherkin]

I think you are missing the point, in 3.1 live servers you have almost that damage mitigation, and do you see any demo warlocks around? Warrior/Paladin have 55% damage reduction from armor and still die in 2-3 gcd vs physical damage.

The 3.2 resilience change is a buff for warlocks because of DOT damage.

I'm not missing the point at all. I posted the numbers because someone asked. I am fully aware of how minimal this difference will be for us in relation to incoming damage.

[Figoment]

ha OP said Pness sound it out

[Nixia]

Who cares about weakness in arena if you can destroy people 1vs1, whic offers much more satisfaction 8).

Hehe right but, arena is what matters in pvp

[Nithian]

In BIS PVE gear, with all trinkets and talents procced, sure. But thats the same as saying "omg feral druid is op I got crit for 16k by Ferocious Bite, nerf!" (which actually happened to me once by the way, I was in PVE gear ofc). You're leaving out 1 person's gear to make a rediculous statement.

My lock has NOWHERE NEAR BiS gear(1 piece 8.5, 1 piece 7.5 and random epics from naxx-25 and Uld-10) and raidbuffed for a 10-man I see 12k conflag crits all the time....I see no reason whatsoever that you wouldn't be seeing 10k crits in arena if you had great gear. When you're talking about BiS PvE gear you'd be seeing something more along the lines of 14-16k conflag crits.

PvP gear has no hit, no haste and a bit less crit than a PvE setup...but the SP is more than there. There is nothing laughable about the dude seeing 10k conflag crits in pvp/arena....at all.

[Supertao The Pro]

on the ptr with full resil my lil gnome demonologist has 55% damage reduction 100% of the time. and 1900 spell power
most times i can just drain tank people(rogues expesialy, its amazing)
i have a feeling itll get nerfed or come live 3v3 teams will b gettin turtled to death by demo lock disc priest rogue

So...youre a death knight now.

K

[Cyno]

Demo locks aren't op. Yes, they have the extra 5% damage mitigation from felguard, but they have no burst.

Destro locks on the other hand are op as hell right now. 10k conflag crits on someone with 800 resil... gfg Paladins got nerfed for having 7k judgement crits in PVP, destro locks easily surpass ret pally burst damage which blizzard still claims that it's a problem :

Yet that doesn't help when you get a pally who's not in crap like hateful that in 1 gcd with a white hit can do 20k with a lucky string of crits 8.4k cs crit 2.6k sob crit trink proc 2.3k melee crit for 7.4k that was with soul link still up and 800 resil given the pally was well geared that's from the 2nd duel the first one he 1 shot my pet but I was able to fel dom another and just kite him.

[Ofmanv]

My lock has NOWHERE NEAR BiS gear(1 piece 8.5, 1 piece 7.5 and random epics from naxx-25 and Uld-10) and raidbuffed for a 10-man I see 12k conflag crits all the time....I see no reason whatsoever that you wouldn't be seeing 10k crits in arena if you had great gear. When you're talking about BiS PvE gear you'd be seeing something more along the lines of 14-16k conflag crits.

PvP gear has no hit, no haste and a bit less crit than a PvE setup...but the SP is more than there. There is nothing laughable about the dude seeing 10k conflag crits in pvp/arena....at all.

Um I have full T7.5/T8 and I can see the difference between PvE and PvP gear just fine. Not to mention in arenas you'll be using demon armor instead of fel armor. So pvp vs pve is a difference of over 900 spell power for me.

Plus I have more talents invested into survivability for pvp and I have to give up glyph of immolate for glyph of soul link in pvp.

Just because I can throw on my pve gear in BG's and make big numbers doesn't mean warlocks are arena viable.

If your basis was big numbers = arena viability then starfire and pyroblast make balance druids and fire mages the best specs in arenas amirite?

[HavocLock]

The trolls in this place are so sadly confused...

[Blardy]

Immolate doesn't need to stay on for more than 1 second, if your reaction time is good you would immolate then conflag right after it (after all, conflag IS instant cast), and if you get a daze proc then there is even a lower chance that immolat will get cleansed right away.
Or you could simply lolcoil+ immolate/conflag
or you could simply fear + immolate/conflag
or you could simply seduce + immolate/conflag

Cleanse is oh so powerful, even though there is a thousand different ways to get conflag off.

What is this mysterious instant cast spell with a 40% less CD you speak of?

Theres a delay between when immolate is casted and when you can conflag, hence why people complain about no dispel resistance. You actually can't even conflag before immolate is dispelled if people spam dispel.

[Dizzygnome]

My lock has NOWHERE NEAR BiS gear(1 piece 8.5, 1 piece 7.5 and random epics from naxx-25 and Uld-10) and raidbuffed for a 10-man I see 12k conflag crits all the time....I see no reason whatsoever that you wouldn't be seeing 10k crits in arena if you had great gear. When you're talking about BiS PvE gear you'd be seeing something more along the lines of 14-16k conflag crits.

PvP gear has no hit, no haste and a bit less crit than a PvE setup...but the SP is more than there. There is nothing laughable about the dude seeing 10k conflag crits in pvp/arena....at all.

Raidbuffs make a much bigger difference then you expect. On my Warlock they make the difference between 3kdps in 5mans 4.5k dps in 10mans and 6k dps in 25mans (roughly).

More to the point: you probably would be hitting 10k conflagrates after removal of raidbuffs and damage reduction from resilience. I never said that would be impossible in something lower then BIS PVE gear. The point that I was trying to make was that someone correctly geared (Resilience, Stamina, Spell Penetration) and specced (Damage Reduction, CC) for PVP with Demon Armor up (which is usually the case in arena) will most definitely not be hitting 10k conflagrates on a regulair basis.

[Woony]

Raidbuffs make a much bigger difference then you expect. On my Warlock they make the difference between 3kdps in 5mans 4.5k dps in 10mans and 6k dps in 25mans (roughly).

More to the point: you probably would be hitting 10k conflagrates after removal of raidbuffs and damage reduction from resilience. I never said that would be impossible in something lower then BIS PVE gear. The point that I was trying to make was that someone correctly geared (Resilience, Stamina, Spell Penetration) and specced (Damage Reduction, CC) for PVP with Demon Armor up (which is usually the case in arena) will most definitely not be hitting 10k conflagrates on a regulair basis.

He will with good gear and 2pc t8,5.

[nwo]

Theres a delay between when immolate is casted and when you can conflag, hence why people complain about no dispel resistance. You actually can't even conflag before immolate is dispelled if people spam dispel.

Which is why I listed (3) other ways around it, and I even left out Shadowfury, making it 4.

The only reason why there should be a delay between your immolate cast and the time where you cast conflag is one of these 3 reasons:
-You have downs
-You have a high ping
-You're a clicker

[Ofmanv]

Which is why I listed (3) other ways around it, and I even left out Shadowfury, making it 4.

The only reason why there should be a delay between your immolate cast and the time where you cast conflag is one of these 3 reasons:
-You have downs
-You have a high ping
-You're a clicker

or because the obvious

- immolate has a slight travel time

[gherkin]

Which is why I listed (3) other ways around it, and I even left out Shadowfury, making it 4.

The only reason why there should be a delay between your immolate cast and the time where you cast conflag is one of these 3 reasons:
-You have downs
-You have a high ping
-You're a clicker

Even a 100ms ping will result in twice that for a delay between Immolate and Conflag.
You cast Immolate
Server applies Immolate to target
Server sends you message "Immolate is up"
You receive message, light up Conflag.

That's 200ms, or .2 seconds. The ONLY time I've ever seen this not happen is when the following conditions are true:
Another Warlock has Immolate on the target
Your Immolate just refreshed.
Conflag is still lit because it hasn't been told to go grey.